Hey, I never noticed that before....

[Henoch]

I need to watch the scene again, but can anyone confirm whether Rand was on the bridge for this scene, or not. Maybe she was supposed to be there per the script, but something happened during shooting and Leslie was swapped in? This is too similar to a later scene where Kirk orders Rand to take the helm...I suspect script confusion/error or film editing. Maybe @Maurice has the story.

SPOCK: Why isn't Mister Sulu at this station?
RILEY: Magnetic pull compensated for, sir. Orbit steady.
SPOCK: Take over here, Rand.
RAND: Yes, sir.
SPOCK: You haven't answered my question. Where is Mister Sulu?
RILEY: Have no fear, O'Riley's here. One Irishman is worth ten thousand of you
SPOCK: You're relieved, Mister Riley. Lieutenant Uhura, take over this station.
UHURA: Yes, sir.
RILEY: Now that's what I like. Let the women work too. Universal suffrage.

(I thought I remember that Spock gave a slight hand signal to Leslie's position, too?) Another thought is that Spock wanted Rand (if she was really there) to take over Leslie's Engineering Station as Leslie raced to the helm. Since she seems to be off camera in the TrekCore screencaps, then manning the engineer station is consistent since this station was off camera, too. In any event, after Riley leaves the bridge, Uhura takes over navigation. Later when Leslie succumbs:

KIRK: Get him out of here.
RAND: I would have gotten here sooner, sir but Crewman Moody stopped me in the hallway.
KIRK: Take the helm.
RAND: Sir?
KIRK: Take the helm!
RAND: Yes, sir.

 

[johnnybear]

I thought Janice Rand was a Yeoman? Then again everyone on the ship must have passed the basic Starfleet training and might be called upon in an emergency I guess!
JB

 

[J.T.B.]

I need to watch the scene again, but can anyone confirm whether Rand was on the bridge for this scene, or not. Maybe she was supposed to be there per the script, but something happened during shooting and Leslie was swapped in? This is too similar to a later scene where Kirk orders Rand to take the helm...I suspect script confusion/error or film editing.

No she's not there. In this case, Eddie Paskey seems to be referred to as "Rand." Whether it was a line flub or what, I've never heard.

 

[Maurice]

I need to watch the scene again, but can anyone confirm whether Rand was on the bridge for this scene, or not. Maybe she was supposed to be there per the script, but something happened during shooting and Leslie was swapped in? This is too similar to a later scene where Kirk orders Rand to take the helm...I suspect script confusion/error or film editing. Maybe @Maurice has the story.

(I thought I remember that Spock gave a slight hand signal to Leslie's position, too?) Another thought is that Spock wanted Rand (if she was really there) to take over Leslie's Engineering Station as Leslie raced to the helm. Since she seems to be off camera in the TrekCore screencaps, then manning the engineer station is consistent since this station was off camera, too. In any event, after Riley leaves the bridge, Uhura takes over navigation. Later when Leslie succumbs:

From Sc. 48:

CAMERA BACK TO REVEAL an n.d. CREWMAN crossing from a rear console, on the run to fill in Sulu's empty station.​

There's no dialog indicated for Spock to call anyone to that station.

There may be page revisions after the final draft. My guess is it that he's not saying "Rand" because why that name?

 

[Maurice]

That’s a famous gaffe that got left in. Apparently Nimoy didn’t realize they were going for a take.

Oops​

Improbable because this is what a set sounds like...

AD: QUIET ON SET! Roll camera.
CAMERA: Speeding.
AD: Roll sound.
SOUNDMAN: Speeding.
2nd AC: Scene 21 apples 1 <clap>
DIRECTOR: ACTION!​

If it's a blooper my guess is Nimoy probably didn't realize he was in the shot.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

From Sc. 48:

CAMERA BACK TO REVEAL an n.d. CREWMAN crossing from a rear console, on the run to fill in Sulu's empty station.​

There's no dialog indicated for Spock to call anyone to that station.

There may be page revisions after the final draft. My guess is it that he's not saying "Rand" because why that name?

What does n.d. stand for? I can't find it online so far.

 

[Maurice]

What does n.d. stand for? I can't find it online so far.

Non Descript.

 

[johnnybear]

In Amok Time, while Spock is deep in the Plak Tow, he usually has his hands interlaced and/or together in front of his face, but in this wide shot, we see Spock/Nimoy with his hand behind his back! (read this "error" on another webpage...maybe been posted before?)

I always remember him saying Rand as well! This shot is good but can be explained as Spock looking forlorn and not knowing what to do with his hands! That or he's confused as to who the Axeman is again, Dave Perna or Russ Peek?

 

[J.T.B.]

Non Descript.

I thought in a script "n.d." was to identify someone with no dialogue? I have also seen "n.s." for non-speaking.

 

[Maurice]

I thought in a script "n.d." was to identify someone with no dialogue? I have also seen "n.s." for non-speaking.

That, too.

 

[Henoch]

I just found another TOS Stardate discrepancy :

• The Conscience of the King: Kirk's logs of 2817.6 and 2819.8, followed by the on-screen Spock line: "We'll arrive stardate 2825.3, Captain, approximately fifteen hundred Benecia time."
• The Galileo Seven: Kirk's logs of 2821.5, 2821.7, 2822.3 and 2823.1, follow by the on-screen Ferris line: "Captain Kirk, check your chronometer. You'll see that it is 2823.8. Your time is up."

Apparently, The Galileo Seven incidence occurred inside The Conscience of the King timeline. (sigh.) The only thing I can think of is that after Anton's death (around 2820-ish, there wasn't any need at all to get to Benecia on schedule anymore hence the ETA Stardate of 2825.3 is no longer accurate. The Enterprise instead gets detoured with the high priority, High Commissioner Ferris mission to Makus Three with a cargo of medical supplies. They put Lenore in a rubber room for this detour mission. En route to Makus Three, Enterprise stubbles upon the quasar-like phenomena and we get TG7 event. After the mission to Makus Three was completed and they unloaded Ferris three days later (about stardate 2832), Kirk then zipped over to Benecia to unload Lenore then we see the final scene in TCOTK several days after stardate 2832 but well before stardate 2945 (a 41 day window). The next known Stardate is 2945.7 for the Ion Storm prior to Court Martial. Very tight, but doable if travel times between episodes are very short and the Enterprise puts the pedal to the medal for some of that famous high FTL speeds.

 

[Timo]

It feels odd that Kirk would complete the trip to Benecia at all. He was under no obligation to do so; he felt no sympathy towards the entourage that had harbored the two murderers; and there's no good reason to think that Lenore should have received the stated "care" at Benecia when we otherwise know the criminal asylums of the Federation are at dedicated, isolated locations.

Yet they decidedly are on "Benecia orbit" at the end of the adventure. An alternate model has them indeed concluding the adventure there before moving on to "Galileo Seven" - yet not on a drawn-out schedule, but an accelerated one. The original purpose of the trip was to give Kodos enough rope to hang himself with, and that may have called for time, which Kirk provided by choosing a low speed and a late ETA. After Kodos died, Kirk stopped dragging his feet, offloaded the murderess at Benecia ASAP, and then received the orders to perform the medical mission. Or then he put the pedal to the metal because he heard of the medical mission right after Kodos died. Either way, it's his decision whether to cruise at a leisurely and reasonable pace, or to dash to the destination - and in a starship, the difference between the two is significant!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Henoch]

It feels odd that Kirk would complete the trip to Benecia at all. He was under no obligation to do so; he felt no sympathy towards the entourage that had harbored the two murderers; and there's no good reason to think that Lenore should have received the stated "care" at Benecia when we otherwise know the criminal asylums of the Federation are at dedicated, isolated locations.

Maybe Benecia was on the main shipping route, and further transportation onto one of the asylums is easier to arrange there.

Either way, it's his decision whether to cruise at a leisurely and reasonable pace, or to dash to the destination - and in a starship, the difference between the two is significant!

That's a great point, but I don't think the Enterprise was traveling too leisurely. In Conscience, Benecia was 8 light years off their course. This may not be the actual distance needed to travel since they are already 3 light years off their course, so, the distance could be between 5 to 11(or more) light years, but for estimating purposes, I'm assuming 8. If you buy Kirk's log Stardate of 2818.9 and the next scene with Spock's line: "We'll arrive stardate 2825.3", then that's 6.4 stardates = 2.3 days or 56 hours to make 8 light years.

• Speed = 8 ly/56 hrs = 0.14 ly/hr = 1227 c. (that's ~Warp 10.7 assuming the Cochrane Factor x=1, or more reasonable warp factors with higher x's. YMMV ).

 

[Phaser Two]

A rubber room for Lenore. I love it.

 

[Henoch]

A rubber room for Lenore. I love it.

They seem to have room for every plot occasion, so, yes, why not a special medical facility for insane tranportees or for crew who go space crazy. When bad-Kirk, Spock, Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura all had mental issues, they were just strapped down in Sick Bay (or was it a special medical ward for the insane that just looked like Sick Bay ).

 

[Mytran]

I just found another TOS Stardate discrepancy :

• The Conscience of the King: Kirk's logs of 2817.6 and 2819.8, followed by the on-screen Spock line: "We'll arrive stardate 2825.3, Captain, approximately fifteen hundred Benecia time."
• The Galileo Seven: Kirk's logs of 2821.5, 2821.7, 2822.3 and 2823.1, follow by the on-screen Ferris line: "Captain Kirk, check your chronometer. You'll see that it is 2823.8. Your time is up."

Apparently, The Galileo Seven incidence occurred inside The Conscience of the King timeline. (sigh.) The only thing I can think of is that after Anton's death (around 2820-ish, there wasn't any need at all to get to Benecia on schedule anymore hence the ETA Stardate of 2825.3 is no longer accurate. The Enterprise instead gets detoured with the high priority, High Commissioner Ferris mission to Makus Three with a cargo of medical supplies. They put Lenore in a rubber room for this detour mission. En route to Makus Three, Enterprise stubbles upon the quasar-like phenomena and we get TG7 event. After the mission to Makus Three was completed and they unloaded Ferris three days later (about stardate 2832), Kirk then zipped over to Benecia to unload Lenore then we see the final scene in TCOTK several days after stardate 2832 but well before stardate 2945 (a 41 day window). The next known Stardate is 2945.7 for the Ion Storm prior to Court Martial. Very tight, but doable if travel times between episodes are very short and the Enterprise puts the pedal to the medal for some of that famous high FTL speeds.

Given that it's not the only overlap in the series (or instances where there's not time in between episodes to be believable), perhaps it's an indicator that Stardates are not just a straightforward measurement of time? GR's official explanation (while deliberately convoluted) suggest that they are also a form of spacial coordinates, to be read in conjunction with the timestamp.

 

[Timo]

I would consider 1227c to be somewhere in the warp 4-5 ballpark, because elsewhere in TOS it's one of those speeds that doesn't yet make Scotty anxious. And when Kirk snaps at Spock for being inquisitive about the course change, the Captain specifically makes no mention of moving at deliberately low speed - but OTOH does nothing to suggest that he would be ordering higher speed to compensate for the detour, either. On that alone, I'd argue the ship retains a performance margin that would not only allow for Spock's concerns to be alleviated, but also for the ship to extra quickly get rid of the mass murderer (or, as matters turn out, the madwoman) when the time for that came.

As for stardates not being linear tickmarks on the timeline, TOS really isn't a pressing case for this. Two cases of apparent overlap can be dismissed as projected but unrealized overlap, and one perhaps dismissed as a verbal typo (the jump from SD 2713.6 to SD 2717.3 in "Miri" is pretty abrupt, and most probably was meant to be from 2713.6 to 2713.7 instead, just like the previous steps in the episode). And of course the heroes lived a certain set of three days twice...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

As for stardates not being linear tickmarks on the timeline, TOS really isn't a pressing case for this. Two cases of apparent overlap can be dismissed as projected but unrealized overlap, and one perhaps dismissed as a verbal typo (the jump from SD 2713.6 to SD 2717.3 in "Miri" is pretty abrupt, and most probably was meant to be from 2713.6 to 2713.7 instead, just like the previous steps in the episode). And of course the heroes lived a certain set of three days twice...

Ironically those extra 3 days aren't really needed, as Naked Time's final log entry was 1704.4 and Balance Of Terror opens on 1709.2, nearly 5 full units afterwards. An extra 3 days are just gravy!

The first actual overlap occurs earlier in Stardate order, going by the Captain's logs:

• The Corbomite Maneuver 512.2 - 1514.1
• The Man Trap 1513.1 - 1513.8

Both the final log in TCM and the opening log in TMT are spoken in the present tense, yet the later episode is whole unit EARLIER than the former!

The next overlap is the one in Miri but it's really not that abrupt since it represents 4 days of frantic waiting on the planet surface and the ratio of 1 unit per 1 day is a fairly consistent one.

• Miri 2713.5 - 2717.3
• Dagger of the Mind 2715.1 - 2715.2

Both logs are spoken in the present tense and the opening log of DOTM is recorded after the Enterprise has left Tantalus for the first time. Again, the later episode's SD is over 2 units earlier than the former.

As for Spock's ETA in Conscience Of The King vs the opening log in Galileo Seven this is an explicit case of unrealised overlap, due to the events of the episode. It's also entirely believable that the Enterprise was unexpectedly called into action when the Makus III emergency blew up.
Bring on the rubber room, I say!

I believe the following are examples of Kirk mis-speaking (TGOT in particular would be a phenomenally long duration otherwise, so I postulate it should have been 3251.7)

• The Gamesters of Triskelion 3211.7 - 3259.2 (second entry by Spock, ergo true)
• Metamorphosis 3219.8 - 3220.3

• The Deadly Years 3478.2 - 3579.4 (second entry by elderly Kirk, should be 3479.4)
• Friday's Child 3497.2 - 3499.1

So that's 2 explicit overlaps, 1 unrealised ETA and 2 cases of probable mis-speakings
There's also 7 episodes that take place only 2 or 3 SD units after a preceding one, barely enough time for the crew to recover their wits and travel to another star system!

In summary, I also find plenty of evidence that TOS Stardates are not solely a timekeeping tool. They're mostly consistent within an individual episode and do increase in general as the series progresses, but that's it!

Incidentally, in searching for other threads on overlapping Stardates, I came across this 2008 post - certainly food for thought!

It is my belief that stardates work in a way similar to time zones. To wit, while those onboard a starship in one part of the galaxy might be experiencing stardate 2700, it might be stardate 3000 on another starship in a different part of the galaxy at the same moment of real time. This is so the dates can be related to one central focal point, maybe Earth or the center of the Federation.
This explains such oddities in TOS such as the "overlapping" of certain stardates, as stardate 1514.1 occurring in both "The Corbomite Manuever" and "The Man Trap". These two episodes happened very close to each other in real time, but the repition in stardates happened because the Enterprise was in a slightly different part of space in each episode. It's kind of like a person flying from the East Coast to the West Coast getting to relive the same hour twice in one day.
In the case of the odd stardate for the animated episode "The Magicks of Megas-Tu", the Enterprise in that episode was said to be investigating the center of the galaxy. This area may have been so far removed in distance from the center of Federation space that the stardate used to represent it had to be a much lower number than what it might have been had the Enterprise been closer to Earth.
This is just my explanation for certain oddities in the stardate timeline, anyway. Hope it makes some kind of sense.

 

[MAGolding]

I just found another TOS Stardate discrepancy :

• The Conscience of the King: Kirk's logs of 2817.6 and 2819.8, followed by the on-screen Spock line: "We'll arrive stardate 2825.3, Captain, approximately fifteen hundred Benecia time."
• The Galileo Seven: Kirk's logs of 2821.5, 2821.7, 2822.3 and 2823.1, follow by the on-screen Ferris line: "Captain Kirk, check your chronometer. You'll see that it is 2823.8. Your time is up."

Apparently, The Galileo Seven incidence occurred inside The Conscience of the King timeline. (sigh.) The only thing I can think of is that after Anton's death (around 2820-ish, there wasn't any need at all to get to Benecia on schedule anymore hence the ETA Stardate of 2825.3 is no longer accurate. The Enterprise instead gets detoured with the high priority, High Commissioner Ferris mission to Makus Three with a cargo of medical supplies. They put Lenore in a rubber room for this detour mission. En route to Makus Three, Enterprise stubbles upon the quasar-like phenomena and we get TG7 event. After the mission to Makus Three was completed and they unloaded Ferris three days later (about stardate 2832), Kirk then zipped over to Benecia to unload Lenore then we see the final scene in TCOTK several days after stardate 2832 but well before stardate 2945 (a 41 day window). The next known Stardate is 2945.7 for the Ion Storm prior to Court Martial. Very tight, but doable if travel times between episodes are very short and the Enterprise puts the pedal to the medal for some of that famous high FTL speeds.

Ironically those extra 3 days aren't really needed, as Naked Time's final log entry was 1704.4 and Balance Of Terror opens on 1709.2, nearly 5 full units afterwards. An extra 3 days are just gravy!

The first actual overlap occurs earlier in Stardate order, going by the Captain's logs:

• The Corbomite Maneuver 512.2 - 1514.1
• The Man Trap 1513.1 - 1513.8

Both the final log in TCM and the opening log in TMT are spoken in the present tense, yet the later episode is whole unit EARLIER than the former!

The next overlap is the one in Miri but it's really not that abrupt since it represents 4 days of frantic waiting on the planet surface and the ratio of 1 unit per 1 day is a fairly consistent one.

• Miri 2713.5 - 2717.3
• Dagger of the Mind 2715.1 - 2715.2

Both logs are spoken in the present tense and the opening log of DOTM is recorded after the Enterprise has left Tantalus for the first time. Again, the later episode's SD is over 2 units earlier than the former.

As for Spock's ETA in Conscience Of The King vs the opening log in Galileo Seven this is an explicit case of unrealised overlap, due to the events of the episode. It's also entirely believable that the Enterprise was unexpectedly called into action when the Makus III emergency blew up.
Bring on the rubber room, I say!

I believe the following are examples of Kirk mis-speaking (TGOT in particular would be a phenomenally long duration otherwise, so I postulate it should have been 3251.7)

• The Gamesters of Triskelion 3211.7 - 3259.2 (second entry by Spock, ergo true)
• Metamorphosis 3219.8 - 3220.3

• The Deadly Years 3478.2 - 3579.4 (second entry by elderly Kirk, should be 3479.4)
• Friday's Child 3497.2 - 3499.1

So that's 2 explicit overlaps, 1 unrealised ETA and 2 cases of probable mis-speakings
There's also 7 episodes that take place only 2 or 3 SD units after a preceding one, barely enough time for the crew to recover their wits and travel to another star system!

In summary, I also find plenty of evidence that TOS Stardates are not solely a timekeeping tool. They're mostly consistent within an individual episode and do increase in general as the series progresses, but that's it!

Incidentally, in searching for other threads on overlapping Stardates, I came across this 2008 post - certainly food for thought!

Apparently you are ignoring the concept that in a highly episodic television series one can assume that most of the episodes - all of the episodes except those which are clearly sequels to earlier episodes - happen in separate alternate universes, different from the alternate universes of all other episodes.

Since TOS and some other Star Trek series are highly episodic, this concept may apply to them.

So if "The Conscience of the King" and "The Galileo Seven" happen in alternate universes, Kirk may not be traveling to planet Benecia any time near the time of "The Galileo Seven". In the alternate universe of "The Galileo Seven" Kirk may encounter the Karidian Company at an earlier or later date or maybe not at all. And in the alternate universe of "The Conscience of the King" Commissioner Ferris may need to get other transportation to the take the medicines where they are needed, and mayor may not find that transportation in time to fight the plague.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Apparently you are ignoring the concept that in a highly episodic television series one can assume that most of the episodes - all of the episodes except those which are clearly sequels to earlier episodes - happen in separate alternate universes, different from the alternate universes of all other episodes.

DRINK!