Destroying Caretaker array after getting home first?

[jmidnight_99]

Janeway had to choose between possibly getting one crewman killed or definitely the entire crew.

In that case, I think she made the right call, even without the 9,500 light year jump.

I assume this is directed at my post? I can't tell without a quote. This isn't what you said. You said:

"Kes was destabilizing the entire ship, which meant she was putting the lives of the entire crew in jeopardy. Even though it was totally accidental, Janewsy still has to safeguard the lives of her crew. Putting Kes on a shuttle did that, and she probably figured she could help Kes while still keeping her crew safe."

How does Janeway help Kes by giving her the shuttle, when it is more likely that she will destabilize the shuttle as she did to Voyager? I'm trying to understand your POV, that Janeway was helping Kes, but it seems like it would be more likely that Kes would destabilize the shuttle and die.

I suspect that the writers "painted themselves into a corner" with the plot line that Kes was involuntarily destabilizing Voyager. I suspect it was done for the spectacle, and in the end, they hoped no one would notice the giant plot hole they created... that she would probably involuntarily destabiize the shuttle, too.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Janeway doesn't like murdering people yet.

1/4 of her crew died coming to the DQ.

The Kazon city ship had up to 40,000 men women and children in it.

If she sent that city ship to the GQ, that's ten thousand dead Kazon.

Which is an over-rection?

What?

Never mind. You're a broken record.

 

[Prax]

Janeway doesn't like murdering people yet.

1/4 of her crew died coming to the DQ.

This is like saying:

"Prax doesn't like murdering people, yet
his brother died in a car accident"

The hypocrisy!

 

[Guy Gardener]

This is like saying:

"Prax doesn't like murdering people, yet
his brother died in a car accident"

The hypocrisy!

You're comprehending wrong. That is not what I was trying to say.

Young Janeway has made less vital decisions that might have very bad consequences for bit players if they are not lucky. It's the fricking pilot for frakks sake.

She has in her lap, a very powerful weapon that she does not know how to use all that well. When that weapon, a pan galactic tractor beam was used by an expert, expertly, 25 percent of her crew died.

If she, a novice, decides to use the pan galactic tractor beam novicely, to shunt the Kazon away, then Kathryn Janeway might kill more than 25 percent of a crew manifest of 40,000 people, which is not cool.

Rather than using the pangalactic tractor beam, she can continue with conventional weapons, or run away.

So her best choices were...

1. Kill ten thousand people, with a found weapon they don't understand very well.
2. Kill no one, or barely any Kazon, but scare the Kazon with a lot of photon torpedoes.
3. Kill no one, by running away.

Older Janeway takes more risks, because it doesn't matter how hairbrained the situation is, she never loses, and never has to face any consequences of her choices.

Oh.

Tuvix.

She killed him.

 

[Prax]

You're comprehending wrong. That is not what I was trying to say.

Young Janeway has made less vital decisions that might have very bad consequences for bit players if they are not lucky. It's the fricking pilot for frakks sake.

She has in her lap, a very powerful weapon that she does not know how to use all that well. When that weapon, a pan galactic tractor beam was used by an expert, expertly, 25 percent of her crew died.

If she, a novice, decides to use the pan galactic tractor beam novicely, to shunt the Kazon away, then Kathryn Janeway might kill more than 25 percent of a crew manifest of 40,000 people, which is not cool.

Rather than using the pangalactic tractor beam, she can continue with conventional weapons, or run away.

So her best choices were...

1. Kill ten thousand people, with a found weapon they don't understand very well.
2. Kill no one, or barely any Kazon, but scare the Kazon with a lot of photon torpedoes.
3. Kill no one, by running away.

Older Janeway takes more risks, because it doesn't matter how hairbrained the situation is, she never loses, and never has to face any consequences of her choices.

Oh.

Tuvix.

She killed him.

oh. Sorry

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm easily misunderstood.

No worries.

Remember Bassics?

When all seemed lost, rather than becoming Kullah's sexfood, she activated the self destruct, and nothing happened.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I wonder if a part of Janeway's depression in "NIGHT" was realizing that within that year, the Ocampa would run out of power and be forced to go above. Since they had no starships and couldn't fend for themselves, they are easy prey for the Kazon.

All Janeway did, and the Caretaker too, was delay the inevitable.

Though one wild card... maybe Suspiria would have gone back to the Ocampa world and brought them to another planet, or even created another Array, and guide their growth like she did with the others.

It was something I wished the producers didn't let go of; I thought there was enough there for a series finale. Even bring the Borg along for the ride if needed. One of my story ideas for a series finale was to have Voyager get knowledge from Kes the Borg has invaded the Ocampa space and the Suspiria and her are struggling to defeat them. Kes needed Voyager's help to take on the Borg but... if Voyager chose to help her and the Ocampa it would bring them back to where everything started which could lead the crew to spend the rest of their natural lives in the Delta Quadrant. I thought there should've been deep, and serious consequences for every decision Janeway made on the series because the playing field was not in her favor. The plot points with the Ocampa, Kes, and Suspiria I thought never had closure.

 

[Farscape One]

I assume this is directed at my post? I can't tell without a quote. This isn't what you said. You said:

"Kes was destabilizing the entire ship, which meant she was putting the lives of the entire crew in jeopardy. Even though it was totally accidental, Janewsy still has to safeguard the lives of her crew. Putting Kes on a shuttle did that, and she probably figured she could help Kes while still keeping her crew safe."

How does Janeway help Kes by giving her the shuttle, when it is more likely that she will destabilize the shuttle as she did to Voyager? I'm trying to understand your POV, that Janeway was helping Kes, but it seems like it would be more likely that Kes would destabilize the shuttle and die.

I suspect that the writers "painted themselves into a corner" with the plot line that Kes was involuntarily destabilizing Voyager. I suspect it was done for the spectacle, and in the end, they hoped no one would notice the giant plot hole they created... that she would probably involuntarily destabiize the shuttle, too.

Apologies for the confusion. Yes, it was directed at what you said.

Let me clarify. Giving Kes the shuttle safeguarded all her crew but Kes. She likely thought she could try to help once she got her ship out of danger. Once Kes was off the ship and it was stable, she can focus on trying to help Kes. She can't help Kes if her ship is ripped apart molecule by molecule. If she kept Kes onboard, that is exactly what would have happened... and if she did that, she got her entire crew killed.

She took care of a certainty first, then would go to work on a posdibility. Time just didn't allow her to help Kes anymore.

 

[Farscape One]

It was something I wished the producers didn't let go of; I thought there was enough there for a series finale. Even bring the Borg along for the ride if needed. One of my story ideas for a series finale was to have Voyager get knowledge from Kes the Borg has invaded the Ocampa space and the Suspiria and her are struggling to defeat them. Kes needed Voyager's help to take on the Borg but... if Voyager chose to help her and the Ocampa it would bring them back to where everything started which could lead the crew to spend the rest of their natural lives in the Delta Quadrant. I thought there should've been deep, and serious consequences for every decision Janeway made on the series because the playing field was not in her favor. The plot points with the Ocampa, Kes, and Suspiria I thought never had closure.

I like your idea of incorporating the Ocampa into the finale. It would have been a nice bookend to the series.

As I write this, I think I realize why tge VOYAGER finale didn't work for me.

TNG bookended it with Q and the trial of humanity.

DS9 was very much serialized and used the last 1/3 of the SEASON to finish their story. Definitely bookended.

VOYAGER didn't bookend it, other than reaching their goal of Earth. THAT is why that series finale felt hollow vs. the others.

(I will not even started on the ENTERPRISE finale...)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did they see if stasis would have slowed her meltdown?

 

[Prax]

Janeway drags Kes down the corridor, and the doctor pops in and gives her an anaesthetic

Janeway- what are you doing?

Doctor- knocking her out so she doesn't destroy the ship. What are you doing?! Why are you taking her to the shuttlebay?

Janeway- You don't understand, Doctor! Kes's contract was not renewed!

 

[darrenjl]

I always felt it should be the Ocampa that send Voyager home, it was after all Voyager that saved them from annihilation. Just like when Kes transcended and propelled them across Borg space having the entire race transcend they manage to get Voyager all the way home.

 

[Prax]

Like the Ocampa Ocampa or the powerful Ocampa from season 2?

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Voyager would have sustained heavy damage again with fatalities if they did manage to use the Array to get home. The trip to the Delta Quadrant nearly breached the warp core and killed numerous crewmen. The ship might well disintegrate on the return trip.

Good thing they didn't go that route.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I always felt it should be the Ocampa that send Voyager home, it was after all Voyager that saved them from annihilation. Just like when Kes transcended and propelled them across Borg space having the entire race transcend they manage to get Voyager all the way home.

The Kazon were only going to take the Ocampa's water.

Transcended?

Jump started.

An Ocampa cannot turn into a God without an 8472 ransacking their brain.

Voyager would have sustained heavy damage again with fatalities if they did manage to use the Array to get home. The trip to the Delta Quadrant nearly breached the warp core and killed numerous crewmen. The ship might well disintegrate on the return trip.

Good thing they didn't go that route.

Most of he crew died because the ship was spinning.

Falling over is dangerous at the best of times.

All they needed was seat belts.

They didn't even need seatbelts. All they needed to do was sit down on the floor.

 

[Farscape One]

And they need surge protectors. That might have prevented the deaths of their CMO and Nurse... and who knows how many others.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Voyager would have sustained heavy damage again with fatalities if they did manage to use the Array to get home. The trip to the Delta Quadrant nearly breached the warp core and killed numerous crewmen. The ship might well disintegrate on the return trip.

Good thing they didn't go that route.

Seriously, how hard would it have been to quickly install seatbelts and turn off the warp core? A quarter of the crew died because they were unable to follow simple instructions "Brace for impact!" A GREAT time to get your cardio in, as Lt. Commander Cavit decided to do, making a beeline towards who knows where, instead of heading toward his seat

 

[IMC Headquarters]

And they need surge protectors. That might have prevented the deaths of their CMO and Nurse... and who knows how many others.

Surge protectors do not exist in the Trek universe. Fact. As evidenced by the displays of numerous, violent electrical discharges throughout the years.

 

[Farscape One]

I know they don't exist in STAR TREK. But they need to invent them.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

I know they don't exist in STAR TREK. But they need to invent them.

Duotronic this, isolinear that. How can an advanced organization like Starfleet can't apply the same protection to crew consoles as it does to warp cores? Sheesh! Does it go with the lowest bidder at Utopia Planitia???