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Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Thing is if the Gideons couldn't be sterilized due to them regrowing organs or self healing then they might also be able to resist the disease about to be introduced into their populations? Hodin also sort of said that death only comes to the very, very old now and by that I took it to mean they were nearly immortal!!! So unless the Federation gave them a new virgin planet upon which to live then perhaps Holberg 917 G might be answer as the only inhabitant there was once immortal too! :techman:
JB
 
Thing is if the Gideons couldn't be sterilized due to them regrowing organs or self healing then they might also be able to resist the disease about to be introduced into their populations? Hodin also sort of said that death only comes to the very, very old now and by that I took it to mean they were nearly immortal!!! So unless the Federation gave them a new virgin planet upon which to live then perhaps Holberg 917 G might be answer as the only inhabitant there was once immortal too! :techman:
JB
Nah, the Gideonites would soon get jiggy and then that world would be overpopulated as well! :guffaw:
 
When the general public has the Kirk-as-horndog idea, this one would support that erroneous claim. Especially the scene of them leaving his quarters later.

I went and watched last night. There was less Prisoner-what-is-going-on-here than I remembered. Odona was good at faking her memory loss. I thought that she had been drugged or mind-wiped as part of the plot.

And yeah, this needed some S1 Coon-Justman-GR story memos (or speed-assisted GR at his typewriter) : They love life so much they won't use a condom, but they'll kill a young woman and let that inspire other wiling victims to come forward and commit assisted suicide? Slight disconnect. But it's decent. Loved it as a kid! An empty Enterprise to yourself!! Yes, please.
 
Mark of Gideon is one of the reasons that the 3rd season gets so much crap. It is. I'd hate to lose almost any episode but this one is on my short list.

If Shatner, Nimoy, Kelly, and Doohan weren't so fun to watch and committed to their characters, this episode wouldn't have anything going for it.

For example, Spock trying to figure out how to save the captain without a diplomatic incident with McCoy and Scott's input is great, too bad it wasn't in a story that was worth a damn.

The idea of population control in a show in the 60s probably was somewhat notable but they handled it so poorly as to not even really count for anything.

We can't do anything to harm life so......we're going to cause a plague to decimate the population.
If anyone can explain that to me, I'll give this turd another chance.
 
We can't do anything to harm life so......we're going to cause a plague to decimate the population.
This sort of self contradictory dogma is not uncommon in extremist societies - it's just important to specify the right kind of killing ;)
 
All Kirk and Odona accomplish is possibly adding one more to the overpopulation problem in about 9 months...;)
 
I never quite understood how the episode ended! Did the Gideonites go ahead with their plan to kill the population? And if so how long would it be before the Gideonites developed their own resistance to the disease?
JB
 
LIGHTS OF ZETAR

Only last week I was pining for noncorpeal aliens and here they are, complete with super powers! Spock says that the Zetarans attack the “voluntary nerve functions but there’s also psychic possession and alleged precognition (more likely remote viewing), all in all a good selection of abilities for our evil intruders.
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The love story aspect seems a little forced but I guess it was Scotty’s turn to have a romance-of-the-week. Who’s next, Chekov?
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There are some nice discussions which expand Scotty’s back story – he got his “space legs” at an early age and has never looked back it seems. However, being in love makes him lose his usual professional edge and he is absurdly naive at times: He misses Mira’s possessed mumbling on the Bridge, dismisses her symptoms, offers platitudes to explain her visions and takes any opportunity to molly coddle her. He’s rather patronising to Lt Romaine throughout, both in his treatment and use of language – in fact he often speaks to her like a child!
Finally, Scotty is quick to dismiss Mira’s psychic powers of seeing into the future, but he’s seen his share of weirdness over the years – he was even around for the events of WNMHGB!

However, this is really Lt Romaine’s story – the bizarre experiences of her first trip into deep space. The Enterprise crew are professional but really just going through the motions, as they’ve dealt with malevolent energy beings many times before. The notion of a species who want to survive even at the cost of other lifeforms is interesting but really just a reshuffle of the plot from Return To Tomorrow, this time without the pretence of benevolence. It's all elements that we (the audience) have seen before and for that reason isn't super engaging.
For the character of Mira though this is a crazy adventure and a baptism of fire! She also gets the honour of being disbelieved and then interrogated by the senior staff, like so many others before her. :rolleyes:

The tale wraps up when she is dispatched to Memory Alpha – but the memory banks are erased and all the staff are dead! What is she expected to do there, rewrite the galaxy’s history from scratch?


MEMORY ALPHA
Is this installation the sole repository of the knowledge it contains? Maybe it should have better security then! Spock spells out the consequences for this ridiculous shortsightedness:
A disaster for the galaxy, Captain. The central brain is damaged. The memory core is burned out. The loss to the galaxy may be irretrievable.
Kirk seems equally puzzled by this bizarre choice which is understandable given how many space storms plague the galaxy, not to mention pesky enemies that might enjoy depriving the Federation of its historical and scientific records.
Even libraries have locks on the doors!


NEW SETS

  • Anti gravity chamber: For nearly 2 years we’ve had the door to McCoy’s decompression chamber (from Space Seed) sat in the corner of the medical lab, but this is the first time it is used. The lab itself also turns out to be a lot deeper and wider than had previously been revealed.
  • This is the final appearance in the series of the Emergency Manual Monitor so I thought it was worth a mention. We spend a fair bit of time there too, including the rarely seen left hand wall

OTHER THOUGHTS:
  • Technically this episode is not a bottle show, but I’m pretty sure that the Memory Alpha set was recycled from Garth’s lunatic asylum (right down to the distinctive Tantalus control panel)
  • I wonder how old Mira is supposed to be, given that this is her FIRST deep space mission? (the actress was 36 FWIW). Was Starfleet not her first career choice?
  • The WNMHGB music is featured extensively throughout this episode, especially on the Zetarans’ attack runs. In fact; is there any music that wasn’t from that earlier episode?
    It could be argued that the score fits thematically though, since both tales deal with forms of psychic possession.
  • Kirk states that no natural phenomenon can go FTL. Was the alien gas cloud in Obsession not natural then? Perhaps the invention of a mad scientist somewhere?
  • Scotty attributes Mira’s symptoms to “space sickness” which is apparently auditory and visual hallucinations which most people experience during their first deep space mission. REALLY???
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  • When Kirk is on the landing party, Mr Sulu gets to sit in the command chair again :techman:
  • The universal translator gets a mention! It did work well in communicating with the energy being in Metamorphosis after all; but does that mean it’s not usually tied into communication channels? Why not?
  • Kirk’s attempt at humour at the end of the episode is met with obvious derision by McCoy and Spock – they clearly agree that this was forced and unnecessary.
I never quite understood how the episode ended! Did the Gideonites go ahead with their plan to kill the population? And if so how long would it be before the Gideonites developed their own resistance to the disease?
JB
Agreed, it was completely unclear and seemed to need another draft, much like this week's episode. For example, are the Zetarians utterly destroyed or just driven off? If not dead, what’s to stop them coming back for another go, if Lt Romaine is such a compatible match?
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I guess they were really rushing the scripts out by this point in the series! :mad:
 
I never quite understood how the episode ended! Did the Gideonites go ahead with their plan to kill the population? And if so how long would it be before the Gideonites developed their own resistance to the disease?

The dialogue made it clear that Odona was all lined up to bring death to Gideon.

ODONA: You are no longer needed on Gideon. I can take your place there.
KIRK: Is that what you want to do?
ODONA: That is what I must do. I am needed there now.


The episode not only takes this terrible way out, but treats it like a happy ending. That's rare for TV of the period. Viewers weren't expected to take it seriously or something. It was no different from this week's girl bidding farewell on Bonanza, if you don't think about it.

Agreed, it was completely unclear and seemed to need another draft, much like this week's episode. For example, are the Zetarians utterly destroyed or just driven off? If not dead, what’s to stop them coming back for another go, if Lt Romaine is such a compatible match?!:mad:

I was always sure the Zetarans were killed, and that's what Kirk was going for. Since they were able to penetrate the shields and the hull in Act 1, the only reason they could not escapes the chamber and attack again is that they were merged with Mira and could not separate themselves from her. Possessing her was a one-way door for them. She was like a Roach Motel.
 
The dialogue made it clear that Odona was all lined up to bring death to Gideon.

ODONA: You are no longer needed on Gideon. I can take your place there.
KIRK: Is that what you want to do?
ODONA: That is what I must do. I am needed there now.


The episode not only takes this terrible way out, but treats it like a happy ending. That's rare for TV of the period. Viewers weren't expected to take it seriously or something. It was no different from this week's girl bidding farewell on Bonanza, if you don't think about it.
Yes, but originally she was to be the royal volunteer to die, the exemplar to the populace to garner more recruits to the new death cult. Kirk was just the convenient source of the plague.
Now she has taken on Kirk's role (the provider of the disease) they still need to find a symbol of this new lifestyle (deathstyle?), so who's going to be lucky number one?

I was always sure the Zetarans were killed, and that's what Kirk was going for. Since they were able to penetrate the shields and the hull in Act 1, the only reason they could not escapes the chamber and attack again is that they were merged with Mira and could not separate themselves from her. Possessing her was a one-way door for them. She was like a Roach Motel.
Okay, I had another look at the episode and it does strongly imply that the Zetarans fully possess Mira and are then crushed to death by the pressure chamber (still not sure how that works on noncorpreal beings, but never mind).
Whilst looking up Jan Shutan's DOB on the Memory Alpha website I had browsed the plot summary which is somewhat ambiguous:
The aliens attack Scott – as Romaine foresaw – but the attack is ultimately not fatal. Chamber pressure is increased, despite the risk of killing Romaine. The aliens are successfully driven out of her body.
:mad: I should have checked my sources! :brickwall:

I stand by my comment about Mira Romaine's future though; just what is she going to do on Memory Alpha, all by herself?
 
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So are the Gideons like Human tribbles? Maybe they can learn something from the TAS "safe tribbles".

Honestly, spread out on other planets/stations! It's not like you don't have options! No need to kill people just because they don't die.

Kirk should have recruited them into Starfleet. Plenty of places to go and ways to maybe die in the service. Or maybe he should have replicated some red uniform shirts for them...
 
The tale wraps up when she is dispatched to Memory Alpha – but the memory banks are erased and all the staff are dead! What is she expected to do there, rewrite the galaxy’s history from scratch?

No, coordinate (or help coordinate) the re-copying from original source material, or other copies. Clean up and wait for reinforcements - other new employee transfers. Maybe a former MA employee can return on temporary assignment to help.
 
No, coordinate (or help coordinate) the re-copying from original source material, or other copies. Clean up and wait for reinforcements - other new employee transfers. Maybe a former MA employee can return on temporary assignment to help.
That's why I wondered if there was original sources for all of the info on M.A.
And if so, why is Spock so despondent?
It still leaves her all alone on the planet in the meantime! :thumbdown:
 
And if so, why is Spock so despondent?

There may have been some irretrievable loss. Possibly Vulcan items, or things which were on loan to MA for scanning/uploading and study? I wrote a fanfic in which a cultural archive NuKirk and crew were visiting had, among other things, a water craft loaned to them so scans of it could be added.

Also, possibly even Spock wouldn't find mindless busywork, nothing to do while you are re-uploading all the files "fascinating" enough.

It still leaves her all alone on the planet in the meantime! :thumbdown:

Did the Enterprise leave her alone, or stick around until the next closest settlement/ship could send people to help her in a pinch?
 
There may have been some irretrievable loss. Possibly Vulcan items, or things which were on loan to MA for scanning/uploading and study? I wrote a fanfic in which a cultural archive NuKirk and crew were visiting had, among other things, a water craft loaned to them so scans of it could be added.

Also, possibly even Spock wouldn't find mindless busywork, nothing to do while you are re-uploading all the files "fascinating" enough.
Or perhaps Spock isn't talking about the loss of data after all? We all know how much he loves computer technology and this storage & retrieval unit was no doubt a very sophisticated mechanism. It may have required decades' worth of research and construction techniques, now damaged beyond repair.
A disaster for the galaxy, Captain. The central brain is damaged. The memory core is burned out. The loss to the galaxy may be irretrievable.
To paraphrase McCoy from season 2; the right computer finally came along for Spock, but it is now dead :wah:
It would certainly make the Federation seem less foolish than putting ALL their data in one spot and not keeping multiple backups :brickwall:

Did the Enterprise leave her alone, or stick around until the next closest settlement/ship could send people to help her in a pinch?
I agree that the episode doesn't specify exactly. Then again, we have Kirk's final order to Sulu:
Mister Sulu, set course for Memory Alpha. Lieutenant Romaine has a lot of work to do there.
She may indeed have a lot work, depending on the storage capacity of one of those data discs we see each week! ;)

McCoy says at one point Mira is losing the battle when she is a 50-50 match with the Zetarians. Assuming this is so, and she doesn't fight them in order not to be burned out, would they need her alive once they had full control? (Basically they had that anyway.)
The Zetarans want to "live again" through Mira, so presumably they can't possess a corpse?
Also, they claim there's a hundred of them; that's going to require a lot of co-operation for just day to day activities! :whistle:e
 
When the general public has the Kirk-as-horndog idea, this one would support that erroneous claim. Especially the scene of them leaving his quarters later.

I went and watched last night. There was less Prisoner-what-is-going-on-here than I remembered. Odona was good at faking her memory loss. I thought that she had been drugged or mind-wiped as part of the plot.

And yeah, this needed some S1 Coon-Justman-GR story memos (or speed-assisted GR at his typewriter) : They love life so much they won't use a condom, but they'll kill a young woman and let that inspire other wiling victims to come forward and commit assisted suicide? Slight disconnect. But it's decent. Loved it as a kid! An empty Enterprise to yourself!! Yes, please.
To me it was a serious attempt at addressing the topic of overpopulation but failed because it was so contrived. The fake Enterprise was fun but sort of impossible to believe that Starfleet's finest attack vessel type could be reproduced so easily, that Starfleet would not treat the possible kidnapping of one of its captain as a very serious security risk. Also agree that condoms while not perfect could be a possible solution. Also opulating new planets, etc.There were many reasons why 3rd world counties had very high birth rates in the 60s including high infant-mortality, religious, inacessibility to birth-control. This wouldn't really apply to say a 1st world society like the Gideonites so they slapped on"love for life" and regenerating organs. Also the fact that the "old leaders" want Odona to inspire "young" people to commit suicide gives me little sympathy for their plight. So was the plan to kill off young people so that the old guys could keep reproducing into their 70s, 80s?
 
I agree that the episode doesn't specify exactly. Then again, we have Kirk's final order to Sulu:
She may indeed have a lot work, depending on the storage capacity of one of those data discs we see each week!
I'm sure that Kirk doesn't mind offering up a Records Officer or two to help. :whistle:
 
MEMORY ALPHA
Is this installation the sole repository of the knowledge it contains?
Kirk's openning log gives us key information:
Captain's log, stardate 5725.3. The Enterprise is en route to Memory Alpha. It is a planetoid set up by the Federation solely as a central library containing the total cultural history and scientific knowledge of all planetary Federation members. With us is specialist Lieutenant Mira Romaine. She is on board to supervise the transfer of newly designed equipment directly from the Enterprise to Memory Alpha.
Apparently, ALL Federation members must provide their planets cultural history and scientific knowledge to be downloaded in this central computer data base. It must be a requirement for entry into the Federation as a member. "The central brain is damaged. The memory core is burned out. The loss to the galaxy may be irretrievable." Note that Spock calls it a "central brain" and not a computer system, so, is the Memory Alpha computer system something special or unique even for Starfleet, perhaps a thinking artificial intelligence (AI). Also, the memory core is burned out, so, I assume the data is gone. I guess making back-ups has become technologically stupid in the future. Since the data must have come from the member worlds in the first place, the Federation will need to go through the diplomatic hassles in coordinating all member worlds to cough up the info, again.
 
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