Marvel films, it's time for a Black female lead

[TREK_GOD_1]

It’s ok. Sometimes we’re right, sometimes we’re wrong—and a mass of words won’t change that.

Good to know you realized how incorrect you were about this.

Excuse me, but I’m getting word that.... GORDON’S ALIVE!?!

Not as far as audiences in those near-empty theaters were concerned.

I just looked the movie up on Wikipedia, and according to this quote from Lorenzo Semple Jr. the humorous approach was intentional. He disagreed with that approach later on, but that doesn't change the fact that the it was meant to be funny.

That's Wikipedia. I'm referring to interviews from the production materials from the period, where he went into detail about what his role was, what he believed should be the direction of the script (Raymond's work)--and it was not what was released. He realized the natural value of Raymond's creation. Semple was already trying to distance himself from the film thanks to the thick-layered buffoonery from DeLaurentis.

I never said it was a parody, I said it was campy. It wasn't a full on comedy, but it's pretty clear just watching the movie that it was not taking itself at all seriously.

There's a distinct difference between screwing something up so much that its laughed at for all the wrong reasons (e.g., FG, the entire Ed Wood catalog, etc.) and camp in at its best sense.

 

[jaime]

I haven't seen the movie again since I found out that they got someone else in to dub Sam Jone's lines.

What?
Seriously?

 

[jaime]

Reed Richards was an Englishman, probably overstaying on an expired Visa.

Does Gamora count toward black diversity if she is a green character?

Welsh.

And ...maybe?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Not as far as audiences in those near-empty theaters were concerned.

I don't think you, Mr. DCEU, should be making box office arguments.

"Are your men on the right pills? Maybe you should execute their trainer!"

 

[Guy Gardener]

What?
Seriously?

Seriously I didn't notice as a child, or seriously it happened?

Sam had such an awful time on set, he left as soon as filming finishing, not knowing that they still had weeks of work in the audio booth to polish the film. They couldn't have two voices for Flash Gordon, and Jones was gone.

I did suspect that something was wrong, when I saw him on Stargate.

 

[JD]

That's Wikipedia. I'm referring to interviews from the production materials from the period, where he went into detail about what his role was, what he believed should be the direction of the script (Raymond's work)--and it was not what was released. He realized the natural value of Raymond's creation. Semple was already trying to distance himself from the film thanks to the thick-layered buffoonery from DeLaurentis.

I found it on Wikipedia, but it's a direct quote from this interview Semple did about his writing career.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Well, whether Flash Gordon was good or bad, I think we can agree that it's the perfect movie to watch while getting high with your teddy bear.

 

[gblews]

Reed Richards was an Englishman, probably overstaying on an expired Visa.

Does Gamora count toward black diversity if she is a green character?

Yes, unless you have some inside info that indicates Zoey Saldana is an alien.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I don't think you, Mr. DCEU, should be making box office arguments.

Even the worst of the DCEU did not play to near-empty theatres like Flash Gordon did. The people made their collective eyerolls known, but this entire defense of FG has not a thing to do the original point brought up to in response to theenglish:

It is pretty bad when you have an ensemble of award winning/nominated actors and can't pull off a decent movie.

It certainly did not in Flash Gordon's case, or the FF reboot.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Once you do things for the purpose of being diverse, especially above good storytelling, it's a rabbit hole. I mean Marvel seems to forget that we've had a black president, many awesome black super athletes and actors, and are just dealing with racism as if from their own little bubble now.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Once you do things for the purpose of being diverse, especially above good storytelling, it's a rabbit hole. I mean Marvel seems to forget that we've had a black president, many awesome black super athletes and actors, and are just dealing with racism as if from their own little bubble now.

Duh.

Sam was Captain America for 2 years, and yes, a hell of a lot of the comics were about race and racists.

Way back in 1986, the US government fired Steve Rogers, because he wouldn't take orders from a political commission, who wanted him to be very obedient. The next issue, the commission of super human affairs went through all the heroes at Marvel to see who was worthy enough to take the shield. Sam's name came up. A respondant said something like "Don't be an idiot, America is not ready for that" and then a shadowy star chamber full of old white men laughed their asses off.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Even the worst of the DCEU did not play to near-empty theatres like Flash Gordon did. The people made their collective eyerolls known,

*looks over at Shazam's worldwide gross..."

Maybe not near empty theaters, but, when you can't even make Ant-Man money....

but this entire defense of FG has not a thing to do the original point brought up to in response to theenglish:

Sure. But, then, you kept responding to it, so then I felt the need to respond to it, which made you respond to it and... Well, you see how it goes.

Impetuous boy! Ah, well... who wants to live forever? DIVE!

 

[theenglish]

Once you do things for the purpose of being diverse, especially above good storytelling, it's a rabbit hole. I mean Marvel seems to forget that we've had a black president, many awesome black super athletes and actors, and are just dealing with racism as if from their own little bubble now.

This seems to be taking its cue from the comics. Also, seems to me to be a pretty good allegory as to how Obama and athletes you mentioned are treated in the real world. As long as you act "white" everybody likes you, and you have to be absolutely careful about being seen as imperfect. Every time Obama relaxed a little, FOX news was all over him. Imagine if he had done a tenth of what the current guy does.

As long as black athletes conduct themselves appropriately, white people like them--but as soon as they try to speak up about race or class problems, suddenly they are bringing politics into the wrong places.

 

[jaime]

*looks over at Shazam's worldwide gross..."

Maybe not near empty theaters, but, when you can't even make Ant-Man money....



Sure. But, then, you kept responding to it, so then I felt the need to respond to it, which made you respond to it and... Well, you see how it goes.

Impetuous boy! Ah, well... who wants to live forever? DIVE!

Flash did well in UK, which squares with a lot of stuff (i.e it’s a British movie, even if based on US license and funding etc. This was the time of ‘British but not British’ films, like Alien, Aliens...heck, even Star Wars....) including it’s cultural impact among my generation here.
Same America didn’t like it as much.

I mean, as an adult I wonder I was allowed to watch it when I was under five, but on the other hand, it’s like someone tried to make a live action film for seventies SF&F art. And it mostly worked from that perspective. *shrug*

 

[EnderAKH]

Once you do things for the purpose of being diverse, especially above good storytelling, it's a rabbit hole. I mean Marvel seems to forget that we've had a black president, many awesome black super athletes and actors, and are just dealing with racism as if from their own little bubble now.

And you seem to forget that when we had that black president half the country lost their damn minds, with a rise in white supremacist groups, and a group which includes the current resident of the white house not being able to handle having a black president so much they accused him of not even being born in this country. So that is a LEGITIMATE STORY REASON as you love to cry out to explore the reaction to having a black Captain America.

 

[YLu]

Once you do things for the purpose of being diverse, especially above good storytelling, it's a rabbit hole. I mean Marvel seems to forget that we've had a black president, many awesome black super athletes and actors, and are just dealing with racism as if from their own little bubble now.

See, when they explored this very topic in the comics, it made for some of that "good storytelling" you're always going on about.

If you think dealing with a relevant topic like racism is inherently counter to a good story, to the point where the mere mention that a story will explore it gets you assuming it'll be a bad story as a foregone conclusion, well, maybe you should take a hard look at yourself and figure out why you think that.

Anyway, Stan Lee has some words for you.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sam, not your cup of tea?

At one point Captain America was dead for a very long time. 4 years?

Noticing the vacuum, Frank Castle, The Punisher, started wearing a varriant Captain America outfit FOR AMERICA. Daredevil kicked his ass.

Carrying on from 1986, they got a psycho to carry the shield, who followed orders, but he also killed people on live television. Legally righteous kills, but Captain America doesn't kill. Optics. Any way it was surely a white Captain America, but he had a black Bucky.... "Battlestar".

 

[Mudd]

Once you do things for the purpose of being diverse...

We moved on from this diversion a couple of pages ago, since you offered no substantiation or cogent argument to support your claims.

I found it on Wikipedia, but it's a direct quote from this interview Semple did about his writing career.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Nyotarules]

Once you do things for the purpose of being diverse, especially above good storytelling, it's a rabbit hole. I mean Marvel seems to forget that we've had a black president, many awesome black super athletes and actors, and are just dealing with racism as if from their own little bubble now.

Why do you really think Stan Lee and Jack Kirby introduced black characters to the MCU universe in 1966? I can tell you it was not because the USA was embracing diversity and just wanted a good story.
Say it loud, your prejudiced and proud! Own your shit!

 

[Set Harth]

half the country lost their damn minds

Remind you of anything?