The internet was destroyed during the Eugenics Wars. Where have you been?
Uhura's Birthplace?
- Thread starter DEWLine
- Start date
You'll find several thousand named Singh in India alone. The key is the whole Khan Noonien part.
I wonder if there is a man called Jackson Roykirk living somewhere in the world today?
JB
How common is the name Singh in India and among people of Indian ancestry?
What was the name of the boy king in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? Zalim Singh. And what was the name of the actor who portrayed him? Raj Singh, by coincidence.
https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Zalim_Singh
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087469/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast
There are almost 25 million members of the Sikh religion worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism#Observances
So there should be over ten million Sikh men named Singh in addition to Hindu men named Singh.
Wikipedia says of the name Singh:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singh
A man who works in a gas station a few blocks from my home in Pennsylvania looks like he might be a Sikh, and thus might have the last name Singh.
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Annnnnd yet another re-telling the the epic saga of MLK and Uhura:
Does he wear a turban? IIRC, all Sikh men are required to wear one.
As for Khan, he is obviously not religious, so I doubt his last name comes from Sikhism. It may just be a coincidence.
I wonder if there is a man called Jackson Roykirk living somewhere in the world today?
JB
Don't know about IRL, but I believe that kid "Jack" from ENT's "Carbon Creek" is intended to be a young Jackson Roykirk. (We never hear Jack's last name, and he is obviously intelligent and fond of astronomy, so it makes a lot of sense that he is the future inventor of Nomad.)
Or his ancestors were religious. Plenty of Cohens and Levis don't where yamulkes...
Khan doesn't wear a Turban, but Maria McGivers, his someday wife painted a painting of Khan wearing a Turban, before they hooked up. Seconds into the conversation in her room (where we see the painting), she says "I know who you are, but I haven't told Captain Kirk" (words to that effect.)
Everyone knows that Khan dates back to the Mongols and means King.
Rulers are not often so devout that it would be an inconvenience, religion is a tool to keep the poor in line. Khan may have been forced to convert to create a power base to cement his control on one or more countries as he was massing an army from the civilian base. He may have also needed to convert to marry into an important family, after he conquered everything to legitimize his territory, which is Empire Building 101.
Everyone knows that Khan dates back to the Mongols and means King.
Rulers are not often so devout that it would be an inconvenience, religion is a tool to keep the poor in line. Khan may have been forced to convert to create a power base to cement his control on one or more countries as he was massing an army from the civilian base. He may have also needed to convert to marry into an important family, after he conquered everything to legitimize his territory, which is Empire Building 101.
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We saw genetically enhanced embryos in Enterprise and Greg's books.
Which means that Khan was a super baby, and was named by assholes.
Later that could be seen as a slave-name, so later he gave himself a new name fitting his stature.
Scientists in the 1950s and 1960s raising dozens of super babies?
The Khan origin comic for Into Whiteness, shows Khan as a preteen slumdog in India, pulled off the street by men in black to be experimented on illegally. They fixed his gammy leg.
Royalty and the Pope rename when they take power.
Which means that Khan was a super baby, and was named by assholes.
Later that could be seen as a slave-name, so later he gave himself a new name fitting his stature.
Scientists in the 1950s and 1960s raising dozens of super babies?
The Khan origin comic for Into Whiteness, shows Khan as a preteen slumdog in India, pulled off the street by men in black to be experimented on illegally. They fixed his gammy leg.
Royalty and the Pope rename when they take power.
In Enterprise the Augments all have names that invoke power: Malik, Persis, Lokesh, Saul
They were all named by Adrik Sooong.
He has issues.
Then there's the augment fail Smike.
https://www.csmonitor.com/Books/201...rable-characters/Smike-from-Nicholas-Nickleby
Named after a Dickensian crippled orphan.
Of course since Sikhism requires men not to shave or cut their hair Khan is no practicing Sikh. As to converting, forced or coerced conversion is frowned upon in Sikhism, and Sikhs make up <2% of the population of India so it's unlikely there'd be much political gain and potentially a lot to lose in converting to such a minority faith, especially in a part of the world were Hinduism (80% of Indians) and Islam are the majority.
Naturally, Trek's history isn't ours, but I still think McGivers was just a rotten historian.
Naturally, Trek's history isn't ours, but I still think McGivers was just a rotten historian.
Genetic engineering nerds from the 60s, being pushed around by square crewcut generals calling them milksops.
No hippy facial hair.
No hippy girly hair.
Otherwise, how the frack did the Supermen shave every day, on a desert planet?
Oh.
They used each other's urine.
No hippy facial hair.
No hippy girly hair.
Otherwise, how the frack did the Supermen shave every day, on a desert planet?
Oh.
They used each other's urine.
According to this 2007 article from the NYT, the abandonment of the turbine (and long hair) among Sikhs has been trending for some time (from the 1990s, according to the article). Maybe it just happened a bit quicker in ST's history
While McGivers would be entitled to throwing deliberate disinformation at Kirk, considering her nearterm plans regarding the superman, it's indeed a bit of a risk to identify a man as a Sikh by virtue of him sporting the major telltales of a non-Sikh. But being a historian, McGivers might be aware that Sikhs have been extinct for so long that neither Mr. "I always get your endless world wars confused" Spock or Jim "I'm a history buff, ask me anything at all about the Wild West" Kirk would have the faintest idea of what a Sikh is.
Yet Spock inevitably dredges the records and finds all the dirt on Khan, including images of him beardless and turbanless while apparently at the height of his power. So our two leading theories should be
1) Sikhism changed, perhaps by master degree from Khan himself
2) Khan wore a false beard in public, and the picture of him beardless in the 1990s is
a) revealing black propaganda from his enemies
b) rare insight into his secretive real life
c) Spock's quick and dirty photoshop job of the present Khan, part of his attempt to frame the guy
d) McGivers' same, part of her attempt to cover her own tracks
Timo Saloniemi
Yet Spock inevitably dredges the records and finds all the dirt on Khan, including images of him beardless and turbanless while apparently at the height of his power. So our two leading theories should be
1) Sikhism changed, perhaps by master degree from Khan himself
2) Khan wore a false beard in public, and the picture of him beardless in the 1990s is
a) revealing black propaganda from his enemies
b) rare insight into his secretive real life
c) Spock's quick and dirty photoshop job of the present Khan, part of his attempt to frame the guy
d) McGivers' same, part of her attempt to cover her own tracks
Timo Saloniemi
Exactly. You'd never look at a clean-shaven man and assume he was a Sikh. I'm pretty sure Marla earned her posting on the USS Enterprise by collecting cereal box tokens.Of course since Sikhism requires men not to shave or cut their hair Khan is no practicing Sikh. As to converting, forced or coerced conversion is frowned upon in Sikhism, and Sikhs make up <2% of the population of India so it's unlikely there'd be much political gain and potentially a lot to lose in converting to such a minority faith, especially in a part of the world were Hinduism (80% of Indians) and Islam are the majority.
Naturally, Trek's history isn't ours, but I still think McGivers was just a rotten historian.
It's basically the opposite, though: McGivers knows exactly who this man is, and doesn't need to make any assumptions.
is she still a hack for choosing to slap Sikh identity to Khan, who is never considered a Sikh anywhere outside that single utterance? Or a clever little villain for misdirecting the heroes that way?
Or is Khan in fact really a Sikh and McGivers just blurts this out before realizing she shouldn't have? While we never learn that Khan should be Sikh, we never learn that he shouldn't, either.
If the latter is true for Khan, I second Aberdeen as Uhura's birthplace, though.
Timo Saloniemi
is she still a hack for choosing to slap Sikh identity to Khan, who is never considered a Sikh anywhere outside that single utterance? Or a clever little villain for misdirecting the heroes that way?
Or is Khan in fact really a Sikh and McGivers just blurts this out before realizing she shouldn't have? While we never learn that Khan should be Sikh, we never learn that he shouldn't, either.
If the latter is true for Khan, I second Aberdeen as Uhura's birthplace, though.
Timo Saloniemi
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