Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?

[pst]

I think we need to stay away from the 23rd century and focus on what’s ahead.

i think if discovery’s creators had just done their own thing instead of deciding to die on the prime timeline hill, the 23rd century would’ve been the perfect period to tell stories in. thanks to the kelvin films (and two seasons of disco), the 23rd century has felt more and more like “default star trek future”. i liked that.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

i think if discovery’s creators had just done their own thing instead of deciding to die on the prime timeline hill, the 23rd century would’ve been the perfect period to tell stories in. thanks to the kelvin films (and two seasons of disco), the 23rd century has felt more and more like “default star trek future”. i liked that.

Why? “To explore strange, new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations…” You can do that in any century, and ST couldn’t care less which one until stories referencing the past sort of stumbled into the 22nd, 23rd, 22nd, well I guess it’s gonna be the 23rd, somewhere around the middle, the 2260s, 2265-70.

It’s counterproductive. How can you go wherever if you always have to worry about what had been invented by 2256 as opposed to 2267? Do they have holograms but not a full-fledged holodeck, can they use them for conmunications or not? Just go forward and ignore such questions.

 

[Mudd]

That assumes the 25th century is mapped out so well you could say that.

None of it exists. "Going forward" is nonsensical. Nor is there anything to explore in the 25th that's new; they'll tell the same stories and make the same mistakes.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

None of it exists. "Going forward" is nonsensical. Nor is there anything to explore in the 25th that's new; they'll tell the same stories and make the same mistakes.

How is it nonsensical if going forward helps eliminate swaths of continuity discussions and makes it more difficult to give fans what they want (so they can be astonished with something they didn’t know they wanted)? You want a series to succeed at that or fail spectacularly, not settle for a middling twist on legacy.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Why? “To explore strange, new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations…” You can do that in any century

That's kind of the point. Time/Dates in Star Trek are, for all intents and purposes, completely arbitrary. So why not the franchise live in the 'era' with the most familiar iconography?

And then there is there's Dennis's point that there is really nothing left to explore in the 25th century. The issue with Berman-era Trek is it abandoned the pretense of the vastness of the Milky Way and started drawing lines on the map and began to heavily favor the Geo-political over the unknown to the point where "strange new worlds" became a misnomer. And, yes, even Voyager fell into this trap.

The quadrants became analogs for contents. "70,000 Light Years" became shorthand for "across the ocean" -- the characters could be anywhere within Gamma or Delta and yet always be 70,000 lightyears from Earth.

The problem with this is it greatly shrinks the perceived breadth of the Star Trek 'universe' to the point where, by the end of the TNG era, the whole thing is nicely charted out. Certainly, from a purely 'realistic' standpoint, there's still all but infinite stars left to explore. But that's not how the franchise chose to present it -- and clearly both Disco and Picard have both continued to do so.

And if they were to continue into the 25th century they would undoubtedly focus solely on the politics. And there is a very significant group of people with whom that would be fine. After all, as a general rule, fan creations (fics, films, whatever) tend to focus on the politics. So there is an interest in it. But the outside that group the level interest declines rapidly. And to Josephine Public, it doesn't exist at all. And if they were to do any kind of 'exploration', it would have to be limited to mostly Voyageresque spacial anomalies whilst croutoning the salmagundi array and sauteeing the Mirepoix Effect with the very occasional visits to the Tolkians, the Hippi, the Bug'Atti, and the V'eyron. And no one wants that again.

 

[pst]

It’s counterproductive. How can you go wherever if you always have to worry about what had been invented by 2256 as opposed to 2267? Do they have holograms but not a full-fledged holodeck, can they use them for conmunications or not? Just go forward and ignore such questions.

well my point was to ignore continuity and play in the TOS sandbox as discovery essentially did its first two seasons. what tech was invented when doesn't really factor into it. it's only when you decide to hamstring your show by saddling it to 50 years of continuity that those kinds of questions matter. and even then, they don't matter that much.

i just don't see how going into the far future really changes anything. we're either going to see a dystopian 32nd century or a super advanced society... but since star trek's already about a super advanced society, i just don't see the distinction.

 

[Lord Garth]

We'll find out how the 25th and 32nd Centuries play out soon enough. Then we'll have something more concrete to say about them one way or another. I don't even want to guess about Discovery Season 3.

With Picard, I'm basically expecting Berman Trek done in Kurtzman Style. It's the combination that has me interested to see what that would actually be like.

 

[CorporalClegg]

i just don't see how going into the far future really changes anything. we're either going to see a dystopian 32nd century or a super advanced society... but since star trek's already about a super advanced society, i just don't see the distinction.

Yup. Completely arbitrary.

On the other hand, it could be the perfect opportunity to do another soft reboot. Like ST09, all the future tech still exists, but all old world-building has been dynamited, giving the writers a blank canvas. So I actually have a small sliver of hope on that front. My displeasure with how season 2 played out was mostly because it was such a blatant capitulation. And whole "it was our plan all along" bullshit comes off as disingenuous and tacky.

The problem though is I doubt this is the intent as it pretty much requires a hard break. No Picard no more Pike and friends. Nothing. It also only works if they keep the core bits intact, which seems more and more unlikely.

 

[pst]

The problem though is I doubt this is the intent as it pretty much requires a hard break. No Picard no more Pike and friends. Nothing. It also only works if they keep the core bits intact, which seems more and more unlikely.

for what it's worth, i actually do think the hard break is what they were after, michelle paradise said just recently discovery isn't going back to the 23rd century. this is clearly an attempt to give discovery its own identity after it devolved into straight up TOS prequel bait in the back half of season 2.

it's a solid plan and i admire the creator's resolve to change things up and leave nostalgia behind, but CBS can have its cake and eat it too. discovery goes to the distant future, picard lives on in the 24th-25th century, short treks/section 31/potential pike spin-off get to keep playing in TOS nostalgia sandbox in the 23rd century.

 

[fireproof78]

for what it's worth, i actually do think the hard break is what they were after, michelle paradise said just recently discovery isn't going back to the 23rd century. this is clearly an attempt to give discovery its own identity after it devolved into straight up TOS prequel bait in the back half of season 2.

it's a solid plan and i admire the creator's resolve to change things up and leave nostalgia behind, but CBS can have its cake and eat it too. discovery goes to the distant future, picard lives on in the 24th-25th century, short treks/section 31/potential pike spin-off get to keep playing in TOS nostalgia sandbox in the 23rd century.

I mean, it makes sense.

 

[thribs]

Still plenty of the galaxy to explore for the 25th century onwards.

 

[BillJ]

The 23rd century is two centuries ahead of the 21st, and there never was much interesting going on in the 25th. So the hell with that.

Unfortunately, Discovery did very little of interest with the 23rd century. Content to play on the fringes, and I expect nothing more from a Pike or Section 31 series. Then we'll get to see the writers pat themselves on the head for how clever they were ramming these shows into the TOS continuity, oblivious that the shows are as throwaway as most of the novels.

 

[Cake]

https://twitter.com/TrekMovie/status/1157381721270001664

TrekMovie @ #STLV‏ @TrekMovie
On if there will be a Pike Enterprise show. @ansonmount : we'll see.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think they're knowingly milking it, at this point. It may be a 'nonanswer', but the spin still seems positive and he seems into the idea - as to both Peck and Romijn. And the sets are built.

The list of reasons not to is getting increasingly smaller each day.

 

[The Wormhole]

None of it exists. "Going forward" is nonsensical. Nor is there anything to explore in the 25th that's new; they'll tell the same stories and make the same mistakes.

Pretty much. Rick Berman actually did have a good point when responding to Paramount executives who wanted a 25th century show instead of Enterprise in the 22nd century. "What does 25th century really mean besides tighter spandex uniforms and smaller tricorders?"

 

[Mudd]

Pretty much. Rick Berman actually did have a good point when responding to Paramount executives who wanted a 25th century show instead of Enterprise in the 22nd century. "What does 25th century really mean besides tighter spandex uniforms and smaller tricorders?"

He was entirely right.

It means you shuffle the deck on who's in and out of the Federation, and introduce new bad guys just like the old bad guys.

 

[Lord Garth]

https://twitter.com/TrekMovie/status/1157381721270001664

TrekMovie @ #STLV‏ @TrekMovie
On if there will be a Pike Enterprise show. @ansonmount : we'll see.

Yeah. This time two days from now (minus a few hours as of this typing), The Announcement will probably break out. If they don't announce it, then that would be the surprise.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

He was entirely right.

It means you shuffle the deck on who's in and out of the Federation, and introduce new bad guys just like the old bad guys.

But see, there lies the problem. You don’t believe in these showrunners, in their ability to transport you into the unseen wonders of the 25th century, so if they’re going to fall back on tropes anyway (think VGR and much of ENT under Berman), why not give you the original straight up, paint between the numbers established by bigger names? Well, I don‘t want that: even a bland show is better than fan service, because it will fail faster and either force rethinking or leave us with no restrictive Star Trek in production.

 

[Noname Given]

Yeah. This time two days from now (minus a few hours as of this typing), The Announcement will probably break out. If they don't announce it, then that would be the surprise.

I really enjoy Anson Mount's sense of humor:
https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1157390931626082305

 

[Mudd]

You don’t believe in these showrunners, in their ability to transport you into the unseen wonders of the 25th century,

I have no reason to believe in these showrunners. What I believe in, is judging by performance. So far these guys don't cut it.

Honestly, Star Trek is not a venue full of "unseen wonders" and hasn't been for decades - and then, only very, very rarely. Believing that a big-budget commercial franchise managed entirely by hired hands as a utility for enhancing the bottom line of the franchise owners is going to produce epiphanies is dreadfully naive and unobservant.

There's moreof the wonder and challenges of living a human life in a couple of hours of Euphoria than in everything CBS has produced for their All-Access outlet, and nary a spaceship or rubber-faced "alien" in sight.