Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tom, May 2, 2019.

?

Drop the Section 31 show for a the Pike show?

  1. Yes, I want a Pike show, and do not want a Section 31 show.

    118 vote(s)
    55.1%
  2. No, I want a Section 31 show, and do not want a show with Pike.

    9 vote(s)
    4.2%
  3. I want a show that feature both Pike and crew on the Enterprise and Section 31 with Georgiou.

    22 vote(s)
    10.3%
  4. I trust CBS to give me something I will like!

    12 vote(s)
    5.6%
  5. I want to see both! as separate shows.

    53 vote(s)
    24.8%
  1. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It does because constructive criticism points out “transcription flaws”, improving story logic in places, creating new possibilities with well-considered changes, whereas the problem are notes that simply do not follow from a premise, retool a show due to outside factors and make the seams visible.
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "D-7" wasn't in the actual script of the episode. The computer voice actress just decided to say "D-7" just to show off her Trek knowledge, completely unaware of the fact that the VFX people intended to use the new Sech class for the scene. This is a case of terrible miscommunication, but that happens. Nothing more.

    Indeed, Eagle Moss decided to tackle the issue with their model of the ship by saying in the information about it that the particular ship seen in the episode was using a tractor beam salvaged from a D-7 which is why the computer reported it as a D-7. But of course, the show then decided to go and make the D-7 a brand new ship in season 2.
     
  3. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That’s interesting, but I prefer the simpler explanation that D-7 isn’t a traditional class name, more like a category that can also encompass the K’t’inga, thus explaining why it was referred to as D-7 in “Prophecy” (VGR).
     
  4. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    Sorry, but putting the entire storyline of B5 Season 5 into B5 Season 4 and then when TNT bailed him out and he got a B5 S5 - where he had to suddenly extend his so called plan<--- Sorry that was a MAJOR detriment to that series. (And was something he claimed he wouldn't do, but as PTEN was folding at the time and TNT didn't show up with an offer until near the end of S4, seems like JMS decided to do what he said he never would WRT B5.)

    If you beleive his 'Hotel staff lost my notes...' bit...Hahahahaha!
     
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  5. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ? According to jms, S4 would’ve ended around “Intersections in Real Time”, so it was merely compressed, and you just accused him of lying about his notes and in a way that’s harmful to the hotel staff in question (which could in theory be tracked down based on the reported context).

    Are you going to back any of that up with proof or retreat having lost all credibility in public (along with Hythlodeus who liked your post)? This is supposed to be the way of Star Trek fandom, throwing out unsubstantiated accusations, as opposed to carefully sifting through fact and fiction before committing a statement on permanent record?
     
  6. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Look, I still think the first 3 seasons of B5 were the absolute best TV had to offer in the 90s and I like JMS just like the next guy (his run on Thor was EPIC), but what really went on behind the scenes during s4 & 5 is actually better documented than you think.


    So please, turn off that ridiculous defensive mode and please go on moving goal posts, because that's way more entertaing to read.

    EDIT: sorry, my last sentence could be interpreted as meddling with the artistic vison of your posts and as an audience I accept that you don't compromise for whatever reasons
     
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  7. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But you won’t get away with sweeping generalizations. Where is it documented that jms lied about merely compressing S4 and/or losing his notes in such a colorful manner? Nobody is perfect, but fact checking of this sort requires statements from people who would know as well or better (often on technical issues such as VFX). There is no comparison between DSC’s revolving door of showrunners and jms’s adjustments made by necessity (as opposed to the idea that social media backlash might be OK as a hard-turn influence).
     
  8. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    JMS lying is nothing new. Back on the Genie boards he was touting how amazing the 'Alien Quarter' on B5 would look and even after the pilot was saying how great it was executed. When many folks mentioned how BAD it looked, suddenly he changed his tune and was blaming the set designer for not following his actual wishes, etc. The man is all ego, He BSes at the drop of a hat. he's a carnival barker at best.
     
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  9. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Where have you been the last, well, forever? No matter the job, you have to please the people above you. This is about making money, if they thought they could make a profit off of a drama about a jack rabbit as President of the United States, they would be making it. They don't give a shit about believable characters and plot developments.
     
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  10. Casas9425

    Casas9425 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    What went on behind the scenes? I know Michael O’Hare was lost to mental illness but outside of that I don’t remember reading about any backstage turmoil.
     
  11. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And there we have it, the expected non-reply. You accused jms of outright fabrication without any basis in independent research, so now you’re flailing about for “evidence” that is supposed to support your speculation about Season 5. That’s not how fact-checking works. The way it does work is that you to back to contemporary statements and remind yourself that jms understood that criticism between the pilot and S1, while presenting in the same post his alien privacy argument. There is also a later observation about the director spending too much time there (they weren’t happy with his work in the end, but then again they had hired him). Finally, it’s not like jms hasn’t also said it was his first-time showrunner’s mistake to leave a director’s cut pretty much unchanged, which was fixed with the special edition made for TNT (where that particular scene was abbreviated).

    This is just off-the-cuff and if anyone has other specifics, feel free to cite your sources, but one cannot oversimplify production stumbles into malice on the part of those involved, not that this has any relevance to the subtopic at hand, being merely an attempt at distraction from the lack of evidence for the original accusation.

    Yes, and then they make shows that are retooled going once… going twice… canceled!, whereas showrunners that won’t have it go on to find new clients and win awards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  12. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Not sure about "turmoil," but they had to rush one storyline because they weren't sure they were getting another season, there were unplanned cast departures (bye, Lyta!), a contractual dispute costing them Claudia Christian, etc.

    Nothing too scandalous. Just the usual behind-the-scenes ups and downs, exacerbated by the budget and ratings issues and the threat of impending cancellation, all forcing revisions to "Master Plan."
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  13. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In summary, TPTB shouldn’t drop an S31 show for a Pike show because it would only show indecision and susceptibility to fan reaction rather than a bold approach where you pick a direction and astonish fans with something they never even considered. I mean, who knows, must an S31 show necessarily become a cynical affair in grey for the disillusioned? I can imagine a take where agents are convinced they are sunny Federation idealism personified since they do the most to maintain it… but at what cost in the real world? I’m not a fan of S31, but there are always unexpected ways of approaching a subject matter you’re stuck with.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. It is something different, and Georgiou as demonstrated some popularity as a character, though I know posters around here would prefer her Prime Counterpart.

    More than that, fan works have demonstrated a high degree of interest in darker facets of the Star Trek universe. It should come as little surprise that the powers that be thought it would be something interesting to explore.
     
  15. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

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    They've already shown worse, and will again.
     
  16. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    The movie and season one were standard level clunkiness that TV audiences have been getting since forever, from Space 1999 to Killjoys. Babylon 5 only really started to impress storytelling wise as of Season 2. By Season 4 it was amazing. But honestly, as I was watching Season 5 week to week it was clear JMS was pulling rough drafts out of his ass to fill out the eps until he could get back to his main storyline and scripts he'd actually had polished for years, not crap he had to scramble to jot down. Doesn't matter what he says, it was bad until about halfway through.
     
  17. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

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    No series order or schedule for Section 31 yet.

     
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  18. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Interesting, you would think they would have got her signed up in preparation for it to make sure she is available.

    Is CBS considering making changes to their plans, there has been a lot of interest in a Pike show but very little for the S31 show, I am fine with both of course.
     
  19. Cake

    Cake Captain Captain

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    Dec 10, 2010
    It is the same Trekmovie reported at the end of January:

    https://trekmovie.com/2019/01/30/st...overy-season-3-and-short-treks-at-winter-tca/

    "As for the Section 31 series, they clarified that even though it was announced, it is currently in “development” and does not yet have a series order greenlight, unlike the Picard and Lower Decks series."


    I guess they can't sign up an actress before the series is actually greenlit. Just imagine the series wouldn't be made, but they already had a contract with Yeoh. They likely would have to pay her damages, if she for example had to decline roles for other movies and series for that time.
     
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  20. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Problem is if they leave it too late she may get a better offer and be unavailable anyway.

    Curious that the show hasnt been greenlit yet, perhaps CBS want to wait and see if the stars align first, plus see how Discovery S3 is received.