Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
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I didn't read the entire thread.
I've heard good things about Defiance. I've also heard good things about Dexter but that it declined in quality in the later seasons. I'm not sure if Benz is someone I would seek out to see what other work she's done, but she's been great in Angel. Now that Darla is a vampire again, I'm really intrigued as to where it's going to go.
One of my favorites as well. I love how the episode touches on some of the things an immortal being might experience, like a love for music of the day (whatever "day" that might be), or just an "I'v seen it all, and I'm over it" attitude.
Easy to imagine a being who has lived for hundreds of years not wanting to ever talk to anyone because "what new thing could anyone tell me".
The depiction of 1950's paranoia was just perfect and that the writers managed to work in a supernatural angle just topped it off for me.
Reunion
Another great episode in this arc for Season 2. Drusilla has made Darla a vampire again, and they wreck havoc on LA. Angel must try to stop them, until the final showdown at the W & H party where Angel has so much hate for those people that he turns his back and Drusilla and Darla start feeding. This is such a dark turn for Angel, and I'll say it's a game changer for the season. Not only that, but then he fires Cordelia, Wesley, and Gunn. It was so awesome seeing Dru and Darla together again. That has to be the scariest and most insane pair you'd ever see because they are both crazy. I also loved the scene with Lindsey where he admits he's not scared. It's interesting ever since he made that choice, I can't figure out the guy other than the firm might have made him emotionless. This was also a great episode for Holland, who has actually been a pretty good character this season. Here I am thinking he's the big bad (And he was in the first half) and then he gets sired. That episode was such a rollar coaster ride of emotions, and this season really has taken a dark turn. We have seen Angel slip into this darkness up to this point, and now it's like everything he's worked for is gone.
Another great episode in this arc for Season 2. Drusilla has made Darla a vampire again, and they wreck havoc on LA. Angel must try to stop them, until the final showdown at the W & H party where Angel has so much hate for those people that he turns his back and Drusilla and Darla start feeding. This is such a dark turn for Angel, and I'll say it's a game changer for the season. Not only that, but then he fires Cordelia, Wesley, and Gunn. It was so awesome seeing Dru and Darla together again. That has to be the scariest and most insane pair you'd ever see because they are both crazy. I also loved the scene with Lindsey where he admits he's not scared. It's interesting ever since he made that choice, I can't figure out the guy other than the firm might have made him emotionless. This was also a great episode for Holland, who has actually been a pretty good character this season. Here I am thinking he's the big bad (And he was in the first half) and then he gets sired. That episode was such a rollar coaster ride of emotions, and this season really has taken a dark turn. We have seen Angel slip into this darkness up to this point, and now it's like everything he's worked for is gone.
Hey @tomalak301, I just want to say thanks for taking us on this ride with you. It’s been 15 years since I’ve watched (though that might change soon) and I’ve really enjoyed “watching” this again through your eyes. Wish this was streaming, I have to go dig out my DVDs... EDIT: I see it’s on Hulu but don’t know if I want another service, ahh first world problems...
I’ve been watching it on Hulu. And your welcome. This thread has been kinda just me lately so I’m glad for the feedback.
Redefinition
This was more of a keep the story moving episode. Angel has certainly gone off the deep end killing any demon that has crossed his path. Darla and Dru are trying to build an army only to see that Angel got there first and lot them both on fire, hence the going off the deep end part. That scene where Dru starts crying was kinda disturbing. Evidently Lindsey and Lilah are still alive and have been made co-CEO’ s of special projects at W & H and Wesley, Cordelia, and Gunn prove that this cast would not have made it on the Buffy musical.
It was a good episode, but it basically serves the purpose of moving the story along.
By the way I saw on my Angel/Buffy viewing guide that another crossover important set coming up includes The Body. As much as that episode was something to behold, I’m not ready to see that episode again when I’m watching Angel so on that one I’m going to skip. Besides, I did actually rewatch the Angel/Buffy scene in Forever so I remember that story. Considering the dark path Angel is currently on, the context certainly changes.
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Was Buffy and Angel Season 1 in widescreen or 4:3 on Hulu?
I think its widescreen but I’m not sure about aspect ratios.
For what it's worth Benz is only on the first four seasons of Dexter which are the best seasons so it might be worth checking out. Her character is pretty much the complete opposite of Darla.
Still enjoying all your reviews. Rewatched Darla this morning after reading your post about it.
Blood Money
I’m finding this stage of the season kind of meandering now. Last we saw of Darla and Drusilla they were almost burned and they don’t even appear in this episode. Instead it’s Angel continuing going after W & H and apparently we see Anne (from the Buffy episode Anne) again. I totally forgot about her and the only hint we got was that she had seen vampires before and wasn’t afraid. I did like the double bluff with Angel and Boone but this story felt like it came out of left field considering the context of the season. It wasn’t a bad episode but it was one that made me go “hmmm”.
I'm rewatching the scene in "The Choice" where Drusilla tells Spike about what is happening in LA and it's amazing how much you miss. when you're not watching Angel. I mean you don't need to watch these series together, but when you know what is actually happening, those conversations have a lot more context. When Spike says Darla was raised from the beyond, I just moved past that scene. It was a massive Angel spoiler and I didn't even notice.
Now I don't need to rewatch this episode.
I’m finding this stage of the season kind of meandering now. Last we saw of Darla and Drusilla they were almost burned and they don’t even appear in this episode. Instead it’s Angel continuing going after W & H and apparently we see Anne (from the Buffy episode Anne) again. I totally forgot about her and the only hint we got was that she had seen vampires before and wasn’t afraid. I did like the double bluff with Angel and Boone but this story felt like it came out of left field considering the context of the season. It wasn’t a bad episode but it was one that made me go “hmmm”.
I'm rewatching the scene in "The Choice" where Drusilla tells Spike about what is happening in LA and it's amazing how much you miss. when you're not watching Angel. I mean you don't need to watch these series together, but when you know what is actually happening, those conversations have a lot more context. When Spike says Darla was raised from the beyond, I just moved past that scene. It was a massive Angel spoiler and I didn't even notice.
Now I don't need to rewatch this episode.
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Happy Anniversary
The season is still kinda meandering at this point, but this wasn't a bad episode. I actually liked the scenes with The Host (I know what this guys name is, but when does it actually get mentioned on screen. He's been in the entire season) and Angel and Angel kind of leaving everything in the open about why he's under so much pressure and how redemption didn't work for Darla and how he pushed the crew out in the cold. Kinda feels like this is the turning point to get them back together soon, even though it looks like Cordy/Wesley/Gunn are pretty satisfied without him. They have their new Angel Investigations agency, they had a nice party, and maybe getting back together will be difficult. The main storyline involving the phsysist and stopping time so his girlfriend wouldn't leave was ok. It didn't really feel like an "Angel" story. It felt a little more soap opera-y (I never saw it, but maybe 7th Heaven-y, trying to pick a show that was probably on the same network at the same time period). I was comparing this season to Buffy season 2, and yeah Buffy Season 2 had it's share of ok to mediocre episodes, so I say they are about even. The good episodes have been great. The decent or average episodes have been average or kinda boring.
Also, Cordy changed her hairstyle again and this time it looks a lot better. Like the little brown rather than the Morticia all black.
The Thin Dead Line
I guess the point of this portion of the season was to really separate Angel from the rest of the crew. Ever since Darla and Drusilla got lit on fire, these episodes have felt, disconnected, from the rest of the season so far. This one, for being episodic in nature was probably the best of the last three, dealing with killer cop zombies and showing that yeah Cordelia can handle herself. I love how much Cordy has grown since that first season of Buffy. I was also glad they showed how nasty racism can be on both sides with that Jackson guy who was a total dick and only looked after himself. Also, they have made Kate likable again, so that's a plus. Wesley getting shot was a shock too.
It was a decent episode but Hopefully Drusilla and Darla return soon. These last few episodes have felt weird, and like I said, disconnected from everything else. Maybe that's the point.
The season is still kinda meandering at this point, but this wasn't a bad episode. I actually liked the scenes with The Host (I know what this guys name is, but when does it actually get mentioned on screen. He's been in the entire season) and Angel and Angel kind of leaving everything in the open about why he's under so much pressure and how redemption didn't work for Darla and how he pushed the crew out in the cold. Kinda feels like this is the turning point to get them back together soon, even though it looks like Cordy/Wesley/Gunn are pretty satisfied without him. They have their new Angel Investigations agency, they had a nice party, and maybe getting back together will be difficult. The main storyline involving the phsysist and stopping time so his girlfriend wouldn't leave was ok. It didn't really feel like an "Angel" story. It felt a little more soap opera-y (I never saw it, but maybe 7th Heaven-y, trying to pick a show that was probably on the same network at the same time period). I was comparing this season to Buffy season 2, and yeah Buffy Season 2 had it's share of ok to mediocre episodes, so I say they are about even. The good episodes have been great. The decent or average episodes have been average or kinda boring.
Also, Cordy changed her hairstyle again and this time it looks a lot better. Like the little brown rather than the Morticia all black.
The Thin Dead Line
I guess the point of this portion of the season was to really separate Angel from the rest of the crew. Ever since Darla and Drusilla got lit on fire, these episodes have felt, disconnected, from the rest of the season so far. This one, for being episodic in nature was probably the best of the last three, dealing with killer cop zombies and showing that yeah Cordelia can handle herself. I love how much Cordy has grown since that first season of Buffy. I was also glad they showed how nasty racism can be on both sides with that Jackson guy who was a total dick and only looked after himself. Also, they have made Kate likable again, so that's a plus. Wesley getting shot was a shock too.
It was a decent episode but Hopefully Drusilla and Darla return soon. These last few episodes have felt weird, and like I said, disconnected from everything else. Maybe that's the point.
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I’ve been watching it on Hulu. And your welcome. This thread has been kinda just me lately so I’m glad for the feedback.
I'm enjoying revisiting the episodes. The truth is that I have kind of forgotten most of these as I've only watched the fourth and fifth seasons more than once.
Is that a quality thing or Just a timing there’s too much good stuff to watch thing, or other reasons. I’ve heard mixed things regarding Angel, ranging from liking it better than Buffy to not really liking it at all. I think for me the issue with these last few episodes was they did such a great job setting up Darla and Angel’s relationship that now that we’ve had 3 or 4 episodic episodes in a row, it feels like they are stalling. I get they have 22 episodes in a season but some of these episodes have just not been as interesting. I think as a spin off it does a great job filling in Backstory for this universe. In the present, there are still times when it feels Demon of the week.
Take for example Happy Anniversary. Other than giving the host something to do or letting Angel say why he’s now alone, what did that episode actually do? It was an out of place soap opera story.
Good question--I enjoyed it fine but I never watched it on first run for the first two seasons. I watched them on DVDs I got a little later and, for me, the final two seasons are really great.
Re: Defiance. Personally, I loved it, and not just for Julie Benz (who plays the town's no-nonsense kickass mayor, while also being drop dead gorgeous).
My wife bailed on it because she found it too confusing - it's apparently based on a game, and there's a lot that they don't bother to explain, assuming you know the game. I don't know the game, and I was confused about a few things, but I didn't let it bother my enjoyment. Jamie Murray is ethereally insanely brilliant.
Hey, it's only 3 seasons in any case.
My wife bailed on it because she found it too confusing - it's apparently based on a game, and there's a lot that they don't bother to explain, assuming you know the game. I don't know the game, and I was confused about a few things, but I didn't let it bother my enjoyment. Jamie Murray is ethereally insanely brilliant.
Hey, it's only 3 seasons in any case.
Yeah, Defiance is a hugely underrated show IMO. I only played the game for a total of about 20 minutes, but I did read a lot of background material that they released in the lead up to the show and during the first season, and that did help. I think you could easily follow the show without it, but it does help to keep the backstory straight since they don't go into a ton of detail during the show.
Reprise
That's more like it. After 3 episodes of "Where the heck are they going with this", we're back to the Darla/Wolfram and Hart story and it's probably the first episode I've enjoyed in a while. It's interesting the common theme both Angel and Buffy came to somewhat close to each other. Buffy admits to Spike that she was in heaven and Earth is Hell. Angel tracks down one of the senior partners from W & H, tries to get to their diminsion, and in a great scene with Holland in the Elevator, comes to the realization that Earth is hell. Man the Buffy-verse is cynical, but they are kinda right. Earth is hell, and we try to make the best of it every single day. This makes Angel believe that what he's fighting for doesn't matter, so he has a pretty risque scene with Darla just to "feel something". Heck, one can say this episode was basically Buffy Season 6 in a nutshell, with Angel playing the role of Buffy and Darla playing the role of Spike. That scene almost got a little rapey too.
Some other highlights from this episode
-The scene where Angel bursts into the new Angel Investigations office was great. Wesley telling Cordy to let Angel have the book made me intrigued.
-I'm a little bummed that the case with the girl with the eye in the back of her head was pretty much done off screen. We were introduced to it last episode in the opening scene, and it ended basically in this episode's opening scene. Of course now Cordy is walking into a trap, so hopefully that will be done in the next episode
-What happened to Kate was heartbreaking. She will never get out from her father's shadow, and that's just sad. I don't have high hopes for her.
We're in the home stretch for Season 2 now so I expect all the episodes left will be pretty great.
Epiphany
I'm glad Angel Investigations is back together. It was about time they would wrap up that storyline, and now I know why they didn't really deal with the three-eyed thing that much. It was all a set up to take center stage in this episode, and man were they creepy. Seeing the third eye in the back or Cordy's head made me thankful I had not eaten dinner yet.
As for the Epiphany, does this mean that Angel is a vampire with a soul who is free to go anywhere, and Darla helped him achieve that? Sure seemed like it as the episode went on. Really liked his talk with Kate at the end about yes Earth is hell and none of it matters except for what we do in that moment. That was a little bit of optimism from the last episode, and it is true. It's almost like Angel was pre-determining where Buffy was going to go. The hardest thing to do in the world is to live in it. Angel now is fully back to helping people and maybe this whole thing has made him even stronger than ever.
I'm glad Kate didn't die, but looking at IMDB, this was her last episode. I guess it had to happen. She's off the force so there isn't much more to tell of her story. I'm going to miss her though. I didn't like how selfish she got, but in the end she was alright. As for Lindsey, what a prick. Glad Angel chopped off his plastic hand.
That's more like it. After 3 episodes of "Where the heck are they going with this", we're back to the Darla/Wolfram and Hart story and it's probably the first episode I've enjoyed in a while. It's interesting the common theme both Angel and Buffy came to somewhat close to each other. Buffy admits to Spike that she was in heaven and Earth is Hell. Angel tracks down one of the senior partners from W & H, tries to get to their diminsion, and in a great scene with Holland in the Elevator, comes to the realization that Earth is hell. Man the Buffy-verse is cynical, but they are kinda right. Earth is hell, and we try to make the best of it every single day. This makes Angel believe that what he's fighting for doesn't matter, so he has a pretty risque scene with Darla just to "feel something". Heck, one can say this episode was basically Buffy Season 6 in a nutshell, with Angel playing the role of Buffy and Darla playing the role of Spike. That scene almost got a little rapey too.
Some other highlights from this episode
-The scene where Angel bursts into the new Angel Investigations office was great. Wesley telling Cordy to let Angel have the book made me intrigued.
-I'm a little bummed that the case with the girl with the eye in the back of her head was pretty much done off screen. We were introduced to it last episode in the opening scene, and it ended basically in this episode's opening scene. Of course now Cordy is walking into a trap, so hopefully that will be done in the next episode
-What happened to Kate was heartbreaking. She will never get out from her father's shadow, and that's just sad. I don't have high hopes for her.
We're in the home stretch for Season 2 now so I expect all the episodes left will be pretty great.
Epiphany
I'm glad Angel Investigations is back together. It was about time they would wrap up that storyline, and now I know why they didn't really deal with the three-eyed thing that much. It was all a set up to take center stage in this episode, and man were they creepy. Seeing the third eye in the back or Cordy's head made me thankful I had not eaten dinner yet.
As for the Epiphany, does this mean that Angel is a vampire with a soul who is free to go anywhere, and Darla helped him achieve that? Sure seemed like it as the episode went on. Really liked his talk with Kate at the end about yes Earth is hell and none of it matters except for what we do in that moment. That was a little bit of optimism from the last episode, and it is true. It's almost like Angel was pre-determining where Buffy was going to go. The hardest thing to do in the world is to live in it. Angel now is fully back to helping people and maybe this whole thing has made him even stronger than ever.
I'm glad Kate didn't die, but looking at IMDB, this was her last episode. I guess it had to happen. She's off the force so there isn't much more to tell of her story. I'm going to miss her though. I didn't like how selfish she got, but in the end she was alright. As for Lindsey, what a prick. Glad Angel chopped off his plastic hand.
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Disharmony
God I hate Harmony so much, but I kinda liked this one. For one, I was surprised Willow had a cameo. I know she's coming in Season 4 (Again, Buffy spoilers) but I didn't think I would see her until then. I actually liked how Cordelia couldn't kill Harmony because they were friends. Harmony may be a vampire, but she was Harmony too, and that put Cordy in an awkward position. I loved the ending where Angel bought her clothes and she was giddy as a school girl. That's probably the first time I've laughed at this show all season.
Dead End
Does this mean Lindsey will be good now? He got the evil hand, found out about the body donor lab, had a really impassioned speech against the board of W & H and is now leaving LA. Nice character arc, even though I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him. Also, can we get Kane and Stewart Head in a room together and watch them sing? The scene where they're at Caritas and Cordelia is stunned Lindsey can sing reminded me of when Willow, Tara, and Xander found out Giles can sing. It was actually my favorite scene in this episode.
I am really hoping to get more on the visions soon. We're almost at the end of the season and I'm just as lost about why the visions are they way they are as I was when Doyle had the visions. So Doyle dies, and the visions for some reason go to Cordy. Why is that. Why not Wesley? What are they there for, and didn't the demon kill the Powers that Be in the season 1 finale. I really hope they clear this up because watching this series I have questions and I hope it's a big enough deal to actually deal with why these visions exist in the first place.
God I hate Harmony so much, but I kinda liked this one. For one, I was surprised Willow had a cameo. I know she's coming in Season 4 (Again, Buffy spoilers) but I didn't think I would see her until then. I actually liked how Cordelia couldn't kill Harmony because they were friends. Harmony may be a vampire, but she was Harmony too, and that put Cordy in an awkward position. I loved the ending where Angel bought her clothes and she was giddy as a school girl. That's probably the first time I've laughed at this show all season.
Dead End
Does this mean Lindsey will be good now? He got the evil hand, found out about the body donor lab, had a really impassioned speech against the board of W & H and is now leaving LA. Nice character arc, even though I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him. Also, can we get Kane and Stewart Head in a room together and watch them sing? The scene where they're at Caritas and Cordelia is stunned Lindsey can sing reminded me of when Willow, Tara, and Xander found out Giles can sing. It was actually my favorite scene in this episode.
I am really hoping to get more on the visions soon. We're almost at the end of the season and I'm just as lost about why the visions are they way they are as I was when Doyle had the visions. So Doyle dies, and the visions for some reason go to Cordy. Why is that. Why not Wesley? What are they there for, and didn't the demon kill the Powers that Be in the season 1 finale. I really hope they clear this up because watching this series I have questions and I hope it's a big enough deal to actually deal with why these visions exist in the first place.
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It's not a power that will ever come back again. It's (I think rather appropriately to the episode) left open to interpretation. Maybe Kate was already dead enough that a vampire could come in but not too far gone to be brought back. Or maybe it was a straight up miracle (wouldn't be the first one around Angel).
Lindsey is pretty consistently uninterested in good and evil. Lindsey is for Lindsey. And really at the end of the day, the biggest thing that ends his run at W&H is that he finally realizes that W&H is not for Lindsey, they're for W&H. I love that final scene so much, though. Kane nailed the evil hand revelation. Stop it Evil Hand stop it!
Kane and Head singing together may have actually happened at some point. Whedon used to have gatherings at his house with a whole bunch of buffyverse actors and they'd just hang out and sing. Supposedly that was part of what led to the musical, since he realized that most of the cast could actually handle it. Unfortunately there's no video of those gatherings...
The Oracles that died last season were just a... conduit to the PtB. There's a lot more to come on the Powers and the visions in the future. As for why not Wesley, he wasn't there when Doyle died. The visions were physically transferred from Doyle to Cordy.
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