The clue for the First is that it cannot Touch anyone. So keep track of that.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
I don't think it's fair to invoke the 'Bury your gays' thing every time a gay character dies. Lots of major and recurring characters die in Buffy. Tara wasn't killed because the character was gay, she was killed because it was the only thing that could possibly push Willow over the edge. Anything else, Tara would have easily calmed her down.
I don't think Tara fell victim to 'Bury your gays', she fell victim to 'Bury the love interests of your main characters'. Just like Jenny, and how in Lost just about every person who falls in love with Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, Locke or Hurley who is not another of the people on that list dies.
I don't think Tara fell victim to 'Bury your gays', she fell victim to 'Bury the love interests of your main characters'. Just like Jenny, and how in Lost just about every person who falls in love with Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, Locke or Hurley who is not another of the people on that list dies.
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I'm just curious, has there been a show that has portrayed a gay relationship (Without the presumption or assumption of death, because I know in Orphan Black, Delphine and Cosima did make it to the end, but it was after the thought of Delphine being dead for an entire season) and it survived for the entire series? I look at all these series I know of where a gay character dies or is presumed or assumed dead and other than maybe Orange is the New Black (Which they are prisoners), I can't think of another series where a gay relationship was able to survive. Hell, even in Discovery they brought back Culber, but I still think it was a mistake to kill him off in the first place and it had a major negative impact on Stamets in season 2. I understand the idea of we shouldn't use the Bury Your Gays trope all the time and equality and all that, but I can't help but feel like killing off gay characters has become a cliche.
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I agree in this case. Especially because of Willow's role in season 7. I don't know what I can say in terms of being to much of a spoiler but the main point is the show doesn't run away from the idea that Willow is gay. I think the trope came about because it was okay for shows to have gay characters so long as they didn't do overt gay things like dating and romance. Unless they are like the sassy best friend to what is usually a straight female character.
Jason
I know this is silly, but the first thing that came to mind was the old Tracy Ullman show (the one where the Simpsons started out as a series of shorts). She had a regular skit where she played the teenage daughter of a couple of gay men. Nobody died there!
Cordy yes, Oz no.
The Killer in Me
I'm very conflicted about this episode. There was a lot going on: Spike's chip starting to degrade, Willow turning into Warren because of Kennedy's Kiss, figuring out who Giles is, etc. It's just easier to bullet point each storyline:
1) The Kennedy/Willow stuff is what I'm most conflicted with. For some reason this series loves to hang on to characters even though they have died. We see Warren again, and quite frankly I'm tired of Warren. He was probably the worst of the big bads and it's like this series can't let go. However, he being a plot device was a nice way into Willow's frame of mind and the grief she is still going through. The shifting of Hannigan and Busch was pretty good and we really got to see the nitty gritty of what Willow is feeling. Unfortunately it all started with Kennedy's Kiss and Kennedy at the beginning came across as kinda pushy, not to mention she lied about being sick. This series did such a great job with Tara's character and how that relationship was able to develop organically that to have Kennedy and Willow come together feels kinda forced to me.
2) The Chip in Spike's head is degrading, so now it's up to Buffy to either remove it or repair it. With everything else going on, this just adds more to her plate, of course. To me though, there doesn't seem to be a choice here. I'm not sure if Spike deserves to be rid of the chip, not after the things he's done. The Chip is kinda like Buffy's insurance policy in the relationship, if they move forward with it. Granted, Spike did go get his soul for Buffy, but I hope they come up with a good reason if they are removing the chip as to why, considering the scene that shall not be named, and even brainwashed, Spike still has the killer instinct.
3) We finally got the Giles answer, but it bummed me out how we didn't see the Ax scene in it's entirety. I'm guessing that might be next episode, but he isn't the First. Ok, that's fine. How did he survive the Ax to the neck. There's got to be a reason for cutting to black and leaving us all hanging. I did love his line about taking the girls on a camping trip, not touching them and still feeling like he was evil. Oh that is so timely in this age we live in.
Overall, it was a decent, if filler-ish episode. Again, when I say filler, I mean that in a good way so this episode being Filler isn't a bad thing. I still find it kinda funny that the original entity of all evil is in remission though. You'd think they would have more than just uber-vampire planned if they wanted to take over the world.
I'm very conflicted about this episode. There was a lot going on: Spike's chip starting to degrade, Willow turning into Warren because of Kennedy's Kiss, figuring out who Giles is, etc. It's just easier to bullet point each storyline:
1) The Kennedy/Willow stuff is what I'm most conflicted with. For some reason this series loves to hang on to characters even though they have died. We see Warren again, and quite frankly I'm tired of Warren. He was probably the worst of the big bads and it's like this series can't let go. However, he being a plot device was a nice way into Willow's frame of mind and the grief she is still going through. The shifting of Hannigan and Busch was pretty good and we really got to see the nitty gritty of what Willow is feeling. Unfortunately it all started with Kennedy's Kiss and Kennedy at the beginning came across as kinda pushy, not to mention she lied about being sick. This series did such a great job with Tara's character and how that relationship was able to develop organically that to have Kennedy and Willow come together feels kinda forced to me.
2) The Chip in Spike's head is degrading, so now it's up to Buffy to either remove it or repair it. With everything else going on, this just adds more to her plate, of course. To me though, there doesn't seem to be a choice here. I'm not sure if Spike deserves to be rid of the chip, not after the things he's done. The Chip is kinda like Buffy's insurance policy in the relationship, if they move forward with it. Granted, Spike did go get his soul for Buffy, but I hope they come up with a good reason if they are removing the chip as to why, considering the scene that shall not be named, and even brainwashed, Spike still has the killer instinct.
3) We finally got the Giles answer, but it bummed me out how we didn't see the Ax scene in it's entirety. I'm guessing that might be next episode, but he isn't the First. Ok, that's fine. How did he survive the Ax to the neck. There's got to be a reason for cutting to black and leaving us all hanging. I did love his line about taking the girls on a camping trip, not touching them and still feeling like he was evil. Oh that is so timely in this age we live in.
Overall, it was a decent, if filler-ish episode. Again, when I say filler, I mean that in a good way so this episode being Filler isn't a bad thing. I still find it kinda funny that the original entity of all evil is in remission though. You'd think they would have more than just uber-vampire planned if they wanted to take over the world.
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If that spoiler doesn't include the end of season 7, I'll read it. I probably won't read the comics, but I
can't risk clicking on something and being like, well there goes the last 9 episodes.
EDIT:
Ok, that doesn't seem so bad. I can actually buy that happening.
can't risk clicking on something and being like, well there goes the last 9 episodes.
EDIT:
Ok, that doesn't seem so bad. I can actually buy that happening.
It’s like the writers wanted Willow to immediately be happy with someone again. I feel it was way too soon for Willow to be dating. Tara hadn’t even been dead for a year. The hurt was still so raw, for Willow and the fandom.
I was feeling that too. Also, we barely know Kennedy. She seems like a nice person, but she is definitely not Tara.
That’s the reason why Kennedy is hated quite a bit among fans: she’s not Tara. Which is a little unfair to her but at the same time, we saw Willow and Tara’s relationship progress. I’m fine with Kennedy as a character but I don’t like the forced relationship between her and Willow.
Season 7 for Willow should have been about learning to be on her own again.
Season 7 for Willow should have been about learning to be on her own again.
That was part of why I was so mad they dumped Kennedy in the comics, I was hoping we'd get to see the relationship develop more.
Did you read the spoiler then?
The biggest problem with Kennedy is we never got the moment where she won us over. Whedon spoke in a couple audio commentaries about giving the fans what they need, not what they want. In terms of new love interests, he pointed out the moments he built in where the audience would fall in love with them.
For Oz, it was the moment where he turned down Willow's kiss in the van when they were stealing the rocket launcher.
That's the moment fans collectively thought, "He's not Xander, but I like him."
For Tara, it was this moment from the episode when Oz returned.
Kennedy never got her moment.
For Oz, it was the moment where he turned down Willow's kiss in the van when they were stealing the rocket launcher.
That's the moment fans collectively thought, "He's not Xander, but I like him."
For Tara, it was this moment from the episode when Oz returned.
Kennedy never got her moment.
Yeah. As a member of the audience I never warmed up to Kennedy. She always came off as pushy and unlikeable to me. And her worst moment (IMHO) is upcoming. Someone upthread mentioned that people didn't like Kennedy because she wasn't Tara. The reason I didn't like Kennedy was because she was Kennedy.
Reading that scene made me emotional again. That was Tara to a T. She was such a great and loyal friend. She knew how conflicted Willow was but still gave her a chance and breathing room. She allowed Willow to be Willow, no judgement. Compare that to Kennedy where the very first question she asked is when did Willow find out she was Gay. It just felt wrong.
Also I apologize for bringing up Orphan Black again, but there was a quote in there that has stuck with me in terms of the whole relationship thing, “My Sexuality isn’t the most important thing about me”. That’s what I liked about Tara. She was such a multi-faceted character that you didn’t think of it as a “gay relationship”. It was just a “relationship” and it was something special.
Also I apologize for bringing up Orphan Black again, but there was a quote in there that has stuck with me in terms of the whole relationship thing, “My Sexuality isn’t the most important thing about me”. That’s what I liked about Tara. She was such a multi-faceted character that you didn’t think of it as a “gay relationship”. It was just a “relationship” and it was something special.
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Noxon and Whedon mentioned in the special features that the didn't want to replace Tara, so they came up with the anti-Tara. Someone who's more confident and forceful and is a self-admitted "bit of a brat". And I totally get their reasoning. The execution was just shit. The way to pull that off would have been to essentially give us a younger, gayer Lorelai Gilmore. Instead we got Kennedy and the lack of charisma or likeability that came with her.
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