Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by tomalak301, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'd second this recommendation, it's a great book.
    I finished up the reboot comic last night, and I loved it. To be completely honest, I think I enjoyed it more than I did the first few episodes of the show.
    Oh and earlier I hinted at a late season character being introduced early, now I can say that that character was Robin Wood. In the reboot he's a classmate and love interest for Buffy. They haven't addressed yet if he has the same backstory.
     
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  2. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Empty Places

    Dawn kicked Buffy out of her own house. Dawn, whose sister sacrificed her own life to save, kicked that very same sister out of her own house. Ok, I get Buffy was being radical, maybe a little misguided. She doesn't deserve to be kicked out of her own house though. Here's an idea. How about these characters actually start talking to one another. I mean there had to be a better way to handle that situation than Dawn kicking Buffy out.

    Other than the shocking ending, which I think they should have come up with a different solution, this was a move the chess piece episode. They suffered a huge loss, now what. I think the only thing about this episode that brought something new to the table was Spike and Andrew's storyline.
     
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  3. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    I’m not a fan of that particular plot point. I understand it because Buffy has just made a mistake that cost lives and eyes and she was arguing to do the same thing again.

    I understand the potentials feeling that way but her friends who went through everything with her voting her out didn’t make as much sense.
     
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  4. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I was mixed on that, but what Dawn did pissed me off the most. Dawn wasn't part of the house until a magical spirit threw her on Buffy's doorstep. Buffy saved Dawn by SACRIFICING herself. I mean I think both sides were wrong (And I have to admit, Buffy has been a little off this season), but Buffy owns that house. Everyone else should have left.
     
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  5. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Buffy being the one to leave made sense just because finding a new place for one person is easier than finding one for twenty.

    But yeah, Willow, Xander and Dawn should have remembered all the things that happened before and trusted her.
     
  6. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Well, they could have all gone to Xander's house. Considering what Anya said, I'm sure she wouldn't have minded. By the way, What has Anya done this entire time other than lose her vengeance demon powers. She's one to talk about high and mighty when she hasn't contributed anything.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They must be using her minimumly after the near-quitting?
     
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  8. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Are you talking about Buffy or Anya? If Anya, I'm actually surprised she's still part of the group, considering she was walking away to figure out stuff for herself.
     
  9. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

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    That was another one of Noxon's "Scoobies being assholes to one another instead of just talking like they used to in order to get a character from Point A to Point B" moment. Season 7 has way, way less of them than Season 6 does, but this is also the home stretch.
     
  10. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I think I know what my issues are with Season 7. There was a reason why I never got involved with the WB/UPN (Other than Star Trek)/CW shows as they originally aired. These were teen dramas with much more melodrama. It feels like Season 7 has more melodrama than any other season, and with the massive increase in the cast because of the potentials, quite frankly it's giving me the same feeling I feel with Flash and Arrow right now. There are too many characters and they are doing drama for the sake of drama. It doesn't feel organic this season, like it had the other seasons. Hell, I think the one I'm noticing the most is Giles. I know Buffy has to grow up, but Season 5 Giles would slap Season 7 Giles a new one, especially after Buffy's speech to the council saying she's calling the shots and there is nothing they can do about it. That's the kind of Leader Buffy is, and it's something that has been missing this season.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  11. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

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    It's an overcrowded season that has its overcrowding of characters staying in Buffy's house, so that there's no escaping how overcrowded it feels. And, as my sisters put it, is there an infinite amount of room in her house?

    Where the fuck is everyone staying? There's three bedrooms (Buffy's, Dawn's and Joyce's/Willow & Tara's). Giles has the only couch. And Spike has the unfurnished basement. Where the fuck are the are the forty potentials, Faith, Andrew and (I think) Anya sleeping? Even if Xander's cramming like fifteen potentials and maybe Anya in his single bedroom apartment it doesn't add up. I know this isn't an important plot hole, but still.

    And, yeah, Season 7 Giles is a dick. Constantly yelling at everyone because "this is serious". No fucking shit. So were Angelus, The Mayor and Glory. This isn't their first rodeo, and you know that. Stop treating your kids like shit.

    Oh, and they thought Giles might be The First?! Their surrogate father arrives unexpectedly after months away overseas and none of his surrogate kids or their friend Xander (:devil:) hugs him? I call bullshit.

    END OF RANT
     
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  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Emma Caulfield IRL.

    Total speculation.
     
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  13. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Ah ok. Yeah I guess Caulfield was quitting but I think they should have wrote her off after Selfless. That seemed like a good end point for the character.
     
  14. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

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    Maybe it was a punishment thing. "You'll do Season 7 like you're contracted to, but we'll do fuck all with your character!" The only time this season she truly got any material of note was Selfless. And that only happened because Whedon asked Drew Goddard what he wanted to write, not knowing the new guy was a massive Anya fan.
     
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  15. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Touched, End of Days

    Like I said, these episodes are flowing together but I wanted to say something and then dedicate another post to the finale. These two episodes were better than Empty Places. They served as set up for the finale, yet there were some nice character moments, like Buffy finding the Sieve, the Buffy and Spike moment giving her the strength she needed at the right moment, and the scene between Willow and Giles researching the weapon. I also loved the final fight between Caleb and Buffy, and now I have a feeling the whole Spike thing at the beginning of the season is coming home to roost. Dawn is still an idiot for tasering Xander when Buffy is just trying to protect her, and the stuff between Faith and the First/Mayor was nice too.

    That was a heck of a time to introduce the guardians though. Second the last episode of the series and we finally get the answer to "Who Watches the Watchers". It kinda felt like that should have been introduced earlier in the season if it was important. It kind of served more as exposition for the Ax rather than something meaningful.

    Anyway, time for the finale.
     
  16. Janeway’s Girl

    Janeway’s Girl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was such a sweet moment with Willow and Xander at the hospital.

    I always wondered, with all the sex going on in Touched, where were all the Potentials sleeping?

    I loved Spike’s speech to Buffy. Also another reason to dislike Dawn: she killed Miss Kitty Fantasico!
     
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  17. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    FYI-- The axe is the object that I mentioned a while back that first appeared in the Fray comics.
     
  18. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

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    Just off camera, apparently. Buffy has a tiny ass house.
     
  19. Janeway’s Girl

    Janeway’s Girl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wood and Faith were in Buffy’s room, Willow and Kennedy were in Willow’s room, and Xander and Anya were in the kitchen, so I assume the Potentials were in the basement.
     
  20. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Chosen

    I feel like that episode could have been longer. I remember when Series Finales felt like movies, where you could have that extra hour to tie up everything you needed to and feel a sense of closure for the characters. I thought this episode was great, with a powerful message of women empowerment and Buffy's speech actually gave me chills. I was actually satisfied that it took a lot of the themes of these men using these woman as tools and saying, no we are the slayers, we have the power to change the rules. That was the message of this show and I think the finale really worked at conveying that across.

    I think what fell a little short for me though, was this episode kinda felt rushed. I mean we have this amulet that Spike puts on and it feels like a Du Ex Machina ending. Maybe Angel tells us what what Amulet does, but maybe they should have put in a "Previously on Angel and Buffy" tag, since they have done it before. Also, that battle was great, I kinda wish it was longer though, and this goes back to Spike. They wrote Spike really really well this season I thought, yet he's only there to wear the thing and light up like a torch. Maybe that was the destiny of his character, the Vampire with the heart of a champion, who got his soul, finally helping to save the world.

    Also, I'm wondering about Willow. Has Willow become the new Guardian? That scene with her and the Ax looked really important, with her hair turning white and having this really glowing look. I think that was the reason for the Guardian scene in End of Days. It was a set up for Willow to become the new Guardian, yet I think the extra hour could have helped clear that up.

    I hope you don't get the wrong Idea because I really enjoyed this finale. It was tense, action filled, and Sunnydale is no more because they destroyed the Hellmouth. It was awesome seeing the potentials rise up to become slayers and yeah there was a bit of a Captain Marvel moment there with Young Buffy at the plate.

    There were two scenes that I absolutely loved that felt really Joss Whedon.

    1)Reference to the Harvest with Giles saying The Earth is Definitely Doomed. I actually cheered at that.

    2) Buffy's analogy to Cookie Dough. It was awkwardly adorable. Hell, Gellar really killed it in this episode.

    So that brings me to the end of Buffy. When I started this thread I had heard great things about this series and it was considered one of the best shows of all time. Is it my favorite show of all time? I would probably say no, but it is in a top 10. I loved this experience and I'm glad I watched and bought this series. These characters were relatable, well written, and the themes it touched on are timeless. It brought me back to my teenage years and I loved watching these characters grow into the people they ended up being. However, I do think the last two seasons felt uneven, and I think the whole potential slayer overcrowding Buffy's house kinda hurt Season 7. I get what they were trying to do, but there needed to be more time to develop them and there wasn't.

    In terms of my Season 7 top 5 and Season Rankings:

    Season 7 Top 5:

    Lies My Parents Told Me
    Conversations with Dead People
    Chosen
    Selfless
    Dirty Girls

    Season Rankings

    Season 5
    Season 2
    Season 3
    Season 6
    Season 4
    Season 7
    Season 1 (And I liked season 1, but in the long run it's too short to be anywhere but last, unfortunately. Also, The Series launched into really good with Prophecy Girl)

    So how did I do? This thread is not dead because I still have Angel, but I am so appreciative at how this thread blew up like it did. I loved talking about this series, and I was surprised when I started this that I did a search for Buffy using the forum search tool and nothing came up. For a series like this to not have been talked about on this forum, it was a great time to start one. I loved the comments, sometimes I was wrong or maybe said things I shouldn't have, but I loved the interaction with you guys and that will keep going with Angel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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