The Eternal Question: TNG or DS9
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TNG and DS9.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever say that you have to hate TNG to love DS9 or vice-versa.
No but when I first joined TrekBBS back in 2003 there were a few loud voices who consistently praised DS9 and trashed TNG in the same breath. I think time, new movies, and Discovery has made some of the differences between the shows seem less significant.
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I agree that there should be no reason to love one but only by hating another. Every single STAR TREK series has its merits... and its flaws. Obviously, everyone will have a favorite, and that's normal and honestly healthy.
Myself, for example. I am sure I have established on many different threads that DS9 is my favorite. But I saw some STAR TREK in reruns before TNG aired, and then TNG premiered... TNG is what made me a Trekkie.
TOS - it set the template. It had adventure, heart, humor. Some great morality plays in there, too.
TNG - while it can be preachy at times, I'm hard pressed to find a finer example of a scifi tv series to help teach and show ethics and morality to children. And frankly a LOT of adults can use these lessons, too. Data was the reason I became a scifi fan, and seeing his journey was a joy. And there were some GREAT episodes here.
DS9 - I think my views have been made clear on many different posts.
VOYAGER - while it did miss the ball on a lot of things, it did embrace adventure and had some really fun and high concept stories, and some surprising and great characters. I always look forward to seeing this crew now and then, and it is part of my all series rewatch.
ENTERPRISE - while the first two seasons had its flaws, which a bunch of things are due to it being a prequel, it got some mojo in season 3. And hiring Manny Coto as a producer and later head writer was the best decision they could have done. Season 3 and 4 turned out some really marvelous episodes, particularly season 4, which was the best TREK season in a few years, with a couple obvious notable episode exceptions.
DISCOVERY - while season 1 had some things I didn't like about it, season 2 was a massive improvement. I think it will end up being a great addition to the franchise.
In short, I see no reason why one can't take the good AND the bad of each show, because with a franchise of over 700 episodes and baker's dozen of movies, there WILL be clunkers.
Myself, for example. I am sure I have established on many different threads that DS9 is my favorite. But I saw some STAR TREK in reruns before TNG aired, and then TNG premiered... TNG is what made me a Trekkie.
TOS - it set the template. It had adventure, heart, humor. Some great morality plays in there, too.
TNG - while it can be preachy at times, I'm hard pressed to find a finer example of a scifi tv series to help teach and show ethics and morality to children. And frankly a LOT of adults can use these lessons, too. Data was the reason I became a scifi fan, and seeing his journey was a joy. And there were some GREAT episodes here.
DS9 - I think my views have been made clear on many different posts.
VOYAGER - while it did miss the ball on a lot of things, it did embrace adventure and had some really fun and high concept stories, and some surprising and great characters. I always look forward to seeing this crew now and then, and it is part of my all series rewatch.
ENTERPRISE - while the first two seasons had its flaws, which a bunch of things are due to it being a prequel, it got some mojo in season 3. And hiring Manny Coto as a producer and later head writer was the best decision they could have done. Season 3 and 4 turned out some really marvelous episodes, particularly season 4, which was the best TREK season in a few years, with a couple obvious notable episode exceptions.
DISCOVERY - while season 1 had some things I didn't like about it, season 2 was a massive improvement. I think it will end up being a great addition to the franchise.
In short, I see no reason why one can't take the good AND the bad of each show, because with a franchise of over 700 episodes and baker's dozen of movies, there WILL be clunkers.
Just because you don't have to hate one to love the other, doesn't mean there aren't people who do happen to love one and hate the other.
True.
Let me put it this way:
I think DS9 is a better show, but I have only watched it one time. That's it. Once.
TNG is more inconsistent and annoys me because it is dull and pretentious at times...but I have watched it over and over again and I enjoy introducing it to my sons.
So....for whatever that's worth....!
I think DS9 is a better show, but I have only watched it one time. That's it. Once.
TNG is more inconsistent and annoys me because it is dull and pretentious at times...but I have watched it over and over again and I enjoy introducing it to my sons.
So....for whatever that's worth....!
DS9 What can I say I am a space station kind of gal
TNG was definitely more inconsistent, but I tend to focus more on the better episodes. For instance, if an album has five songs I love and five songs I hate, I skip the ones I hate and just listen to the songs I love. Any album with five great songs is a great album for me, irrespective of how many and how awful the other songs were.
With DS9, it would probably be harder to skip crap episodes because of the continuous story. It's fortunate it achieved a better consistency. However, I think locking into a certain storyline - which I am discovering it only partially did - also inhibits the kind of creativity out of nowhere from which you can get a Yesterday's Enterprise or Timescape.
I agree with your album rating system. That being said I don't think the continuing storyline affected the creativity of DS9, which still had some fantastic one off episodes - trails and tribulations was a superbly creative episode off the top of my head.
Like I said, it only partially locked into one storyline. I agree, there is still some good creativity in one off episodes. I just watched Trials and Tribble-ations last night, in fact. It was one of only two that I specifically remember seeing, and I quite liked it.
DS9. I like every season, some more than others, but I have no complaints overall.
TNG's first season is a mixed bag. And I mean mixed. The second season is more stable but mostly just okay. S3-S4 is the real core of the series. I could probably do without about half of S5-S7.
I hate to boil it down to numbers, but there we are. I don't revisit either series that much, to be honest, though.
TNG's first season is a mixed bag. And I mean mixed. The second season is more stable but mostly just okay. S3-S4 is the real core of the series. I could probably do without about half of S5-S7.
I hate to boil it down to numbers, but there we are. I don't revisit either series that much, to be honest, though.
Interesting. I view TNG season 2 as more mixed, while season one was pretty consistently poor.
TNG is better, I loved the characters and variety of stories and it being a procedural means pretty much every episode is a complete story. Serialized storytelling does have its advantages but years after the fact for rewatch purposes I prefer the procedural approach.
Depends on the mood.
TNG is self-contained per episode, with loose yet consistent continuity and characterization. (as a kid I'd probably not pick up on changed character mannerisms and depending on episode that would bug me as an adult.)
DS9 starts out the same way but quickly creates a serialized version of itself (like what Buffy and B5 and others did).
TNG is comparatively light. DS9 dares to do detail. It's the duck analogy - you see the fowl floating, but under the water's surface it's paddling. DS9 paddles, TNG floats.
DS9 is almost apocryphal to the fundamentals of Trek at times - but made for far more gripping storytelling with its best episodes.
TNG showed mutinous captains being bad just 'cuz the story tells us that (sometimes to tell a bigger message, and the episodes are self-contained). DS9 shows captains into rather less clear cut situations and letting the audience decide on their own. In part due to the serialization. But it depends on the mood, if show vs tell is the preferred flavor of the moment. And while often used as pejorative, the "tell" at "show vs tell" does open up sequel stories to prove the "show" aspect if the premiere story that tells captures viewers' hearts with innovative or interesting personalities for the characters... which isn't as often as it used to be, but I digress...
That's why the winner of this contest is
TNG is self-contained per episode, with loose yet consistent continuity and characterization. (as a kid I'd probably not pick up on changed character mannerisms and depending on episode that would bug me as an adult.)
DS9 starts out the same way but quickly creates a serialized version of itself (like what Buffy and B5 and others did).
TNG is comparatively light. DS9 dares to do detail. It's the duck analogy - you see the fowl floating, but under the water's surface it's paddling. DS9 paddles, TNG floats.
DS9 is almost apocryphal to the fundamentals of Trek at times - but made for far more gripping storytelling with its best episodes.
TNG showed mutinous captains being bad just 'cuz the story tells us that (sometimes to tell a bigger message, and the episodes are self-contained). DS9 shows captains into rather less clear cut situations and letting the audience decide on their own. In part due to the serialization. But it depends on the mood, if show vs tell is the preferred flavor of the moment. And while often used as pejorative, the "tell" at "show vs tell" does open up sequel stories to prove the "show" aspect if the premiere story that tells captures viewers' hearts with innovative or interesting personalities for the characters... which isn't as often as it used to be, but I digress...
That's why the winner of this contest is
"The Orville". 
(rimshot)
Right now, DS9 gets my vote. The Maquis, Founders, and Dominion were all major elements handled with much care and intrigue when they needed to be.
(rimshot)
Right now, DS9 gets my vote. The Maquis, Founders, and Dominion were all major elements handled with much care and intrigue when they needed to be.
DS9 > TNG IMO
I would say DS9 is usually more interesting to watch, but I don't think it's so serialized that you can't just hop in anywhere, save for the 6-parter in season 6, and the 10-parter in season 7, and I don't often watch those anyway. For the rest, even if they throw in a hint about the dominion or some other ongoing thread, they won't do it without an expo-dump, and the episodes are still self-contained stories.
For me, I go back and watch Star Trek like every other year the last few years, and my favorite series is whichever one I am into and watching at the time. When I get through one, or get tired of it, I move onto the next, then that one is what's holding my interest and current favorite. And I typically watch a lot more of DS9's episodes than TNG's.
For me, I go back and watch Star Trek like every other year the last few years, and my favorite series is whichever one I am into and watching at the time. When I get through one, or get tired of it, I move onto the next, then that one is what's holding my interest and current favorite. And I typically watch a lot more of DS9's episodes than TNG's.
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