JJ's era and excess if not unfair blame on Rian Johnson

[Gaith]

Yoda/Ben Kenobi were in self-imposed exile as well. Not unheard of for Jedi to go into hiding when things aren't going their way.

When the Emperor, Vader, Empire, and who knows how many dark side acolytes (including Force-wielding Inquisitors, apparently) were against them. Whereas Luke apparently went into hiding a decade or so before the First Order killed off one star system (and somehow immediately dominated the galaxy that simply and easily)? Also, Yoda was freaking old.

George Lucas' idea actually.

You mean the guy who thought it was a great idea to have Anakin build C-3PO, and then turn from wanting to arrest Palps to murdering kids in the course of a single evening? Yeah, I wouldn't have wanted him to write the ST either.

 

[JRoss]

But Maz was used well enough in TFA, it didn't seem underdone. Her appearance in TLJ, on the other hand, is barely a cameo.

I agree that she was used enough in TFA. I don't think that she needed to be in TJL at all, really.

Boba Fett.

Yoda/Ben Kenobi were in self-imposed exile as well. Not unheard of for Jedi to go into hiding when things aren't going their way.

Yes they were. I had no problem with Luke going off into exile. Heroes are heroic, but they're not perfect.

What the what now? Felicity, Alias, Lost, Fringe, Person of Interest, Revolution, Westworld, and Castle Rock are all shows he produced that had good runs or are likely to.
Hi, I'd like you to meet my friend Boba Fett who became a cult favorite despite have approximately 10 minutes of screen time across two movies (about 6 in Empire, and around 4 in Jedi) and despite suffering a really dumb death.

JJ worked on the first two episodes of lost and wrote the third season premiere. That's it. Fringe and Alias fell apart at the seams midway through their runs. He wrote only six episodes of Fringe, all in the first season, then did the JJ thing and stepped away to overextend himself. Let me introduce you to Believe, Almost Human, Revolution (yeah, not a good run), Alcatraz, Undercovers, Six Degrees and What About Brian. The man is a genius, but he doesn't stick with anything. Typically writes a few episodes of whatever he creates, gets EP credit and moves on, performing fewer duties as the show continues. Did you see how many producers Fringe had had by the final season? JJ calls in his posse of Damien Lindeloff, Bob Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Akiva Goldsmith and the rest. All of them are capable of doing fantastic things, but it's easy to get the feeling that they don't truly care about a lot of these projects. I mean, I don't begrudge JJ this. He gets to reap rewards and accolades for a minimum amount of work.

I wasn't knocking the dumb death. I thought it suited the character fine. And the Boba Fett parallels are easy to see. There were fans clamoring for an expanded role for her in TLJ and claiming that Rian failed her. I'm just saying that Rian's not obligated to pick up the threads that the audience said he should. Rey's parents, the Knights of Ren, whatever. That's not his problem.

Yeah, as others have stated, this is just the Boba Fett effect. There is no obligation for those characters to be anything.

George Lucas' idea actually.

This speaks more to expectations than to an actual problem.

Dude, I think we're on the same page with this. I agree with Rian's decisions and with everything that you said. I was addressing the problems that other fans had.

 

[mos6507]

If Rian was backed into a corner maybe he could have, um, not taken the gig? It also doesn't take much to get fired as a director under KK, so he could have become "difficult" and gotten himself booted. Instead not only did he finish the film but tried to solidify his role in delivering a whole new trilogy.

I think rather than playing the blame game one needs to ask, is it entertaining watching a movie which is sort of intended to knock over anything and everything its predecessor set up? After the initial stimulation of the shock value wears off, the answer is no. You are left with two films that are thematically at war with each other.

I actually liked the idea of Rey not having special birth. I also liked the idea of offing Snoke insofar as it felt like you're watching someone play an RPG and going rogue rather than following the set plan. But you have to have something to replace the Jenga puzzle you just kicked over, and TLJ doesn't give you that. You're left with nothing but all the jenga pieces sitting on the ground.

I think it would have been better to have a third director come in and finish things off rather than bringing JJ back because JJ, by all accounts, is trying to steer things back to the original concept, like reintroducing special parentage to Rey and having Kylo repair his helmet. It would have been better to take the yin and the yang and try to synthesize something new out of it than to just negate TLJ as if it's the Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

[Set Harth]

It also doesn't take much to get fired as a director under KK

Literally all it takes is saying out loud "I want Luke alive at the start of my movie."

 

[fireproof78]

You're left with nothing but all the jenga pieces sitting on the ground.

Stupid second act. It's almost as if the story isn't done yet.

 

[Campe]

Stupid second act. It's almost as if the story isn't done yet.

Shhhh....

 

[Gaith]

[Rian Johnson's future movies] being canceled is a sad fantasy. One I can’t wait to see shattered.

That may be, but I'll believe it's actually happening when I see a press release and the first installment's release date. At the moment, I see no firm indication that another Johnson SW movie is happening, or that the LFL chairman who hired him will be around past 2021, before the first Benioff/Weiss movie even opens.

 

[Awesome Possum]

That may be, but I'll believe it's actually happening when I see a press release and the first installment's release date. At the moment, I see no firm indication that another Johnson SW movie is happening, or that the LFL chairman who hired him will be around past 2021, before the first Benioff/Weiss movie even opens.

Whatever gets you through the night...

 

[JD]

JJ worked on the first two episodes of lost and wrote the third season premiere. That's it. Fringe and Alias fell apart at the seams midway through their runs. He wrote only six episodes of Fringe, all in the first season, then did the JJ thing and stepped away to overextend himself. Let me introduce you to Believe, Almost Human, Revolution (yeah, not a good run), Alcatraz, Undercovers, Six Degrees and What About Brian. The man is a genius, but he doesn't stick with anything. Typically writes a few episodes of whatever he creates, gets EP credit and moves on, performing fewer duties as the show continues. Did you see how many producers Fringe had had by the final season? JJ calls in his posse of Damien Lindeloff, Bob Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Akiva Goldsmith and the rest. All of them are capable of doing fantastic things, but it's easy to get the feeling that they don't truly care about a lot of these projects. I mean, I don't begrudge JJ this. He gets to reap rewards and accolades for a minimum amount of work.

I believe none of those were really JJ Abrams' shows to start with, they were most done by other people and he just helped to launch them. I don't he was ever intended to stick around on any of those shows.

 

[fireproof78]

That may be, but I'll believe it's actually happening when I see a press release and the first installment's release date. At the moment, I see no firm indication that another Johnson SW movie is happening, or that the LFL chairman who hired him will be around past 2021, before the first Benioff/Weiss movie even opens.

Based upon...what exactly?

 

[Gaith]

A lack of evidence. Same reason I'm not holding my breath for Neill Blomkamp's Alien 3-ignoring Aliens sequel. And Kathleen Kennedy's two-year contract extension, for a period of time in which her company is only releasing one feature film, looks to me as though it could easily be a mandated retirement tour. Who knows? But I don't necessarily take every entertainment corporation press release as gospel, for reasons too obvious to enumerate.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Are the GoT writers just writing or writing and directing? Because they aren't exactly known for directing anything from what I can tell. Because they could be writing and Johnston is directing.

 

[fireproof78]

A lack of evidence. Same reason I'm not holding my breath for Neill Blomkamp's Alien 3-ignoring Aliens sequel. And Kathleen Kennedy's two-year contract extension, for a period of time in which her company is only releasing one feature film, looks to me as though it could easily be a mandated retirement tour. Who knows? But I don't necessarily take every entertainment corporation press release as gospel, for reasons too obvious to enumerate.

Fair enough, but I'm not exactly embracing any of this. Thus far, Disney, nor LFL, have indicated a lack of confidence in Kennedy's work. Now, that might change in December, but the idea that somehow her time is short is, odd, to say the least.

Are the GoT writers just writing or writing and directing? Because they aren't exactly known for directing anything from what I can tell. Because they could be writing and Johnston is directing.

That was my thinking as well, but the way everyone is weeping and wailing, and gnashing their teeth over this news you would think these guys had bought out LFL, all the SW rights, and were, as we speak, burning the original copies. It is utter madness the reaction to this. And I thought Abrams in Trek fandom had it bad. I mean, he does, but this is just bizarre.

 

[Gaith]

Fair enough, but I'm not exactly embracing any of this. Thus far, Disney, nor LFL, have indicated a lack of confidence in Kennedy's work.

Reasonable people may differ, but the upcoming three-year gap in Star Wars movies, when Marvel Studios is pumping out 2-3 movies per year, could well be interpreted as such. Heck, and not just a Star Wars movie gap, but a Lucasfilm movie gap, period. Okay, their hands are pretty well tied with Indiana Jones in waiting for Spielberg, but what about... gasp... an original Lucasfilm movie? You know, from the studio that brought you American Graffiti, Labyrinth, Willow, and... uh, Red Tails and Strange Magic?

What with the Pirates franchise dormant, the recent John Carter/The Lone Ranger/Tarzan adaptations DOA, and the Wizarding World franchise going full period Nazi grimdark, it seems to me that now would be an excellent time to be developing an original adventure movie with franchise potential, and no studio names quite says "Adventure!" like Lucasfilm. Instead, we're getting an upcoming three-year movie gap, and two Disney+ series that seem much more OT than ST-focused. Make of that what you will...

 

[Campe]

There are some rumors (and I admit wholeheartedly, this is only a rumor) that Kathleen Kenendy may take over Bob Iger's role as CEO when he retires. Kennedy's contract ends in 2021. Iger's announced his retirement as 2021. Kennedy has brought in significant money with four films in a relatively short period of time. Despite what some fans think, Kennedy has been a success for the Disney name (except for one film and let's be fair - they can't all be winners), grossing $4.8 billion globally.

Definitely a rumor but not one that is outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Set Harth]

Because they could be writing and Johnston is directing.

That would be hilarious if they came out and said "Oh, did we say Johnson was developing a trilogy? We meant Johnston!"

 

[fireproof78]

Reasonable people may differ, but the upcoming three-year gap in Star Wars movies, when Marvel Studios is pumping out 2-3 movies per year, could well be interpreted as such.

You're right. I do completely differ on this interpretation.

 

[Campe]

One thing to remember about Marvel vs. Star Wars, there is a lot more source material and potentially marketable characters in the Marvel universe than there are in Star Wars. There are 80 years of history and hundreds if not thousands of characters that have, in some form, been profitable for the label. Star Wars is primarily known as a movie series which focuses on about a dozen characters throughout three eras. And obviously, Solo proved that even one of the most popular characters with the richest histories isn't going to bring in people. You can make your argument as to why. Yes, there is the EU, which many fans suggest could be mined and in some of the new canon TV, literature and comics, and they have and they very well may attempt to do so with films. The rumored Knights of the Old Republic films comes to mind. And just because something worked for Marvel doesn't mean it would work for Star Wars. I love the films, even the sequel trilogy. But even I recognize that it is not nearly as popular as the OT material. There's probably a reason for that. Taking this all the way back 1,000 generations before A New Hope does not mean instant success. In fact, I'm going to suggest that getting further away from what's worked best for Star Wars could hurt it. I honestly would be perfectly content leaving Star Wars where it is after The Rise of Skywalker.

But if its a good story, then take my money, Disney!

 

[JD]

Are the GoT writers just writing or writing and directing? Because they aren't exactly known for directing anything from what I can tell. Because they could be writing and Johnston is directing.

Do you mean Rian Johnson? I believe they've already said he's writing and directing his trilogy.

Reasonable people may differ, but the upcoming three-year gap in Star Wars movies, when Marvel Studios is pumping out 2-3 movies per year, could well be interpreted as such. Heck, and not just a Star Wars movie gap, but a Lucasfilm movie gap, period. Okay, their hands are pretty well tied with Indiana Jones in waiting for Spielberg, but what about... gasp... an original Lucasfilm movie? You know, from the studio that brought you American Graffiti, Labyrinth, Willow, and... uh, Red Tails and Strange Magic?

What with the Pirates franchise dormant, the recent John Carter/The Lone Ranger/Tarzan adaptations DOA, and the Wizarding World franchise going full period Nazi grimdark, it seems to me that now would be an excellent time to be developing an original adventure movie with franchise potential, and no studio names quite says "Adventure!" like Lucasfilm. Instead, we're getting an upcoming three-year movie gap, and two Disney+ series that seem much more OT than ST-focused. Make of that what you will...

That's not why Disney bought Lucasfilm, if Disney wants an original adventure film, they'll just make one and release it themselves. The only reason they bought Lucasfilm is for Star Wars, and Indiana Jones and possibly now Willow as a secondary thing, so that is where they are going have them focus.

There are some rumors (and I admit wholeheartedly, this is only a rumor) that Kathleen Kenendy may take over Bob Iger's role as CEO when he retires. Kennedy's contract ends in 2021. Iger's announced his retirement as 2021. Kennedy has brought in significant money with four films in a relatively short period of time. Despite what some fans think, Kennedy has been a success for the Disney name (except for one film and let's be fair - they can't all be winners), grossing $4.8 billion globally.

Definitely a rumor but not one that is outside the realm of possibility.

I find that a lot more plausible than her being fired/forced into retirement. Despite what some people like to believe, her time as CEO of Lucasfilm has been an incredible success, and the only way I could see her not continuing in the position is if she moves up in the company.

 

[fireproof78]

I find that a lot more plausible than her being fired/forced into retirement. Despite what some people like to believe, her time as CEO of Lucasfilm has been an incredible success, and the only way I could see her not continuing in the position is if she moves up in the company.

Indeed. She is highly successful in her own right.