Spoilers The Flash - Season 5

[Romulan_spy]

That ending with Nora's message in the Time Vault really tug at my heart strings. Well played writers of the Flash!

It is interesting to see the similarities between Arrow and Flash this season. Both shows featured the main protagonist finding a new family member (sister for Oliver, daughter for Barry) who starts good, turns evil and then has a redemption arc in the end. Both shows, the new family member dies. And both shows, ended their finale on a real emotional note.

 

[Christopher]

Both shows featured the main protagonist finding a new family member (sister for Oliver, daughter for Barry) who starts good, turns evil and then has a redemption arc in the end.

I think that's a pretty major stretch. Nora was trying to be good throughout, but she was duped by Thawne and had a brief flirtation with evil before regaining her true self. Whereas

Spoiler: Arrow spoilers just in case

Emiko was only pretending to be good in service of a consistently evil agenda, and only had a brief moment of repentance at the end.

Also, the person we were introduced to as Emiko's evil mentor, Dante, turned out to be working for her instead of the other way around.

 

[Professor Zoom]

It's still around because of some mumbo-jumbo about the weird characters Nora used to write in it protecting it from changes in the timeline.

Maybe I should've added a

 

[Doc Mugatu]

That speech he gave about how he almost saw Cisco as the son he never had right before killing him because to him he's been dead for centuries was chilling. He's just a monster who is trying to suppress his humanity. Even with Barry, he was clearly proud of him at times. It was like he was Obi-Wan and Darth Vader at the same time.

After seeing the season finale your post comes off as very intuitive with respect to your allusion of Obi-Wan/Darth Vader as it seems the anti-Speed Force that Thawne taps into is very corrupting (like the Dark Side of the Force). Leaves open the possibility that he may have actually been a decent human being at one time.

Aside from the Crisis tease, I think this is the least cliffhangery season finale The Flash has had. We only get a couple of slight hints about what lies ahead. It looks like Cisco made a new costume for Caitlin/KF, but we don't get to see it yet. And Ralph was looking at a file labeled "Dearbon," which apparently is the maiden name of Ralph's wife Sue in the comics. I was wondering if they'd get around to that storyline.

Agreed with much of your post. It was predictable (and even that was predictable). This episode did give a nice shine to Ralph and Joe though and that was good. Glad Caitlin appears to be staying and hope it will be for the entire season (that is to say she won't be a victim of The Crisis). Wonder if Kid Flash will return in S6?

I don't know if this was the least "cliffhangery" as I don't recall season 1 or 2 having even the scent of one. Part of this season's problems could have been them hyping it since the middle of the 2017-18 season (never good when in the middle of one season the star tells you he more interested in what's going to happen in the next).

Will say I hope Reverse Flash unexpectedly gets his comeupance in The Crisis since he triggered it prematurely.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

That ending with Nora's message in the Time Vault really tug at my heart strings. Well played writers of the Flash!

I found that ending to be very heavy handed and unnecessary. A reminder that the target audience are in their early teens.

It is interesting to see the similarities between Arrow and Flash this season. Both shows featured the main protagonist finding a new family member (sister for Oliver, daughter for Barry) who starts good, turns evil and then has a redemption arc in the end. Both shows, the new family member dies. And both shows, ended their finale on a real emotional note.

They've been doing that since the start in one way or another. It's the Ford production line brought to television writing. You can spot it in Supernatural as well. That's why I've been in fear of them killing off Joe West.

I think that's a pretty major stretch. Nora was trying to be good throughout, but she was duped by Thawne and had a brief flirtation with evil before regaining her true self.

Agree, however, the writing in her case was not as strong as it should have been (perhaps because they were trying to make it go on too long).

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think that's a pretty major stretch. Nora was trying to be good throughout, but she was duped by Thawne and had a brief flirtation with evil before regaining her true self. Whereas

Spoiler: Arrow spoilers just in case

Emiko was only pretending to be good in service of a consistently evil agenda, and only had a brief moment of repentance at the end.

Also, the person we were introduced to as Emiko's evil mentor, Dante, turned out to be working for her instead of the other way around.

Good point. I know the two characters don't follow the same arc. There are major differences as you point out. I just thought there some similarities.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I found that ending to be very heavy handed and unnecessary. A reminder that the target audience are in their early teens.

Perhaps the execution was heavy handed but I don't think you need to be an early teen to be moved by parents losing a child and/or getting a loving message from that child "beyond the grave" as it were. That would move anyone if they had a heart.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Thing is though, they didn't actually lose the child--unless the change in the timeline prevents her from being born.

That was a bit unclear. Will they see her again when she's born? Or will she never be born?

In Nora's timeline, Barry disappears in 2024. Now he disappears in 2019. So that could mean Nora is never conceived. If they somehow prevent Barry's disappearance, which they must since he left the message from 2040 or whatever, will that bring back Nora?

I still think it would be amazing if they think they conceived Nora, and then find out they have twins. Barry and Iris could process that this baby is not Nora, and that Nora can't be conceived--these kids will be different. Logically, it would almost seem disrespectful to both Nora and the new daughter to name her Nora. Hence Dawn.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Perhaps the execution was heavy handed but I don't think you need to be an early teen to be moved by parents losing a child and/or getting a loving message from that child "beyond the grave" as it were. That would move anyone if they had a heart.

What was more moving: Nora disintegrating in their loving arms as they all shared the moment or her after the fact pre-taped message that only repeated what was previously said? If it were one or the other then fine but not both (as they chose to do). After all that had been given us in this episode, no one outside their early teens would need such a mawkish scene to feel the power and depth of their anguish and loss.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Of course if she ceased to exist, how did her video survive?

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Of course if she ceased to exist, how did her video survive?

It was tucked into her diary and the temporal runes protected it.

 

[Awesome Possum]

After seeing the season finale your post comes off as very intuitive with respect to your allusion of Obi-Wan/Darth Vader as it seems the anti-Speed Force that Thawne taps into is very corrupting (like the Dark Side of the Force). Leaves open the possibility that he may have actually been a decent human being at one time.

I think he’s implied that he was. IIRC he said he used to be a fan and wanted to meet him. I think that’s his comic origin too, he just wanted to meet the Flash but his trip back in time warped his mind.



I am curious if Nora was completely erased meaning she was never conceived or the Nora we met no longer exists because she had no reason to learn about her powers and go back.

 

[Christopher]

I am curious if Nora was completely erased meaning she was never conceived or the Nora we met no longer exists because she had no reason to learn about her powers and go back.

I think it's probably the latter. There was that line where they said "We'll see you again" or something like that. It's always been pretty much a given that the Nora they give birth to in the future will have a different life history than the one we met as an adult, because her own presence in the past changed it.

 

[Turtletrekker]

^What about that message from an older Barry Allen from further into the future?? Or that guy from the very distant future who claimed to have known Barry as a much older man...?

Or did I miss something?

Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. Has the message from Barry from 2056 ever been addressed?

The finale was definitely a little on the underwhelming side. In fact, the entire season was a little on the underwhelming side. Arrow started to show it's age right around season 5 and Flash is in danger of the same thing if they don't shake the format up a little bit next season.

 

[Jayson1]

What's going to be interesting is what they DO choose for the new Wells. They have had evil, brilliant, fraudulent, and detective. My favorite version is season 2, and they could always bring him back.

If COIE goes a certain way, then the multiverse could collapse into a universe. That means only one Wells left.

If timelines are altered maybe we will see the one that Thawne killed in season 1. We never got to see the real Wells all that much from Flash's world.

Jason

 

[Christopher]

If timelines are altered maybe we will see the one that Thawne killed in season 1. We never got to see the real Wells all that much from Flash's world.

No, this Thawne seems to be the same one that was in season 1, with full memory of his actions as Harrison Wells, even though that conflicts with how season 1 ended. The change to the timeline was that he was freed from Cicada's dagger in the future. That doesn't affect his actions in the past.

 

[Jayson1]

No, this Thawne seems to be the same one that was in season 1, with full memory of his actions as Harrison Wells, even though that conflicts with how season 1 ended. The change to the timeline was that he was freed from Cicada's dagger in the future. That doesn't affect his actions in the past.

I was thinking of the Wells who got killed having a picnic with his wife/girlfriend. Basically the guy who created the Star Labs on our main earth from the show. The idea of him needing to be restricted because of his powers made me also think of something.

Maybe he finds himself in a wheelchair because of injury which would sort of circle back to season 1. Maybe Thawne won't be the villian but be our "Wells" next year and if they do have a baddie it will be someone else. I think it would be kind of cool if he to fight aliens or a alien next season. Even cooler if it was a Kryptonian and we finally figure out why this world doesn't have a Superman or Supergirl.


Jason

 

[Christopher]

I was thinking of the Wells who got killed having a picnic with his wife/girlfriend. Basically the guy who created the Star Labs on our main earth from the show.

Yeah, you were suggesting that the timeline change could undo Wells's death. I'm saying it couldn't, because erasing Cicada's dagger only changes the future, not the past.

 

[Jayson1]

Yeah, you were suggesting that the timeline change could undo Wells's death. I'm saying it couldn't, because erasing Cicada's dagger only changes the future, not the past.

I was thinking they might go another route. I think they are done with the Cicada stuff. Maybe this Crisis stuff which I don't fully understand because I don't real the comics but from what I can tell it involes alternate earths and time alterations.

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'd expect them to add Sue Dearbon as a regular, at least, now that they've teased her as a new client (or investigation subject?) for Ralph. Naturally there will be another Wells-of-the-Year. And presumably the big bad, whoever that might be. I doubt it would be Sue, since her evil turn in the comics is so poorly regarded. And there's no way it'll be Abra Kadabra, given how busy David Dastmalchian is with movies these days. (Well, unless he "disguises" himself and they recast.)

Sue didn't turn evil. She was killed by the Atom's ex-wife, Jean Loring who was the one to turn "evil".