News Mount And Peck Are Open To Reprising Pike And Spock

[Alan Roi]

Well, it's nice to have The Orville while it lasts - a smart, entertaining space adventure show like the original Star Trek, with likeable characters who don't take themselves far more seriously than the writing justifies.

Everything that STD has failed at.

Smart is not how I would describe the Orville. It's only if you consider copying your essay from someone else's written 30 years ago that got a C and add a few jokes while dumbing it down across the board with slightly updated references but maintaining the 30 year old cliches and stereotypes.

As far as I am concerned Killjoys and the recently departed The Last Ship offered a much closer TOS vibe than Seth's vanity project ever has. And at least they haven't stooped to the laziness inherent to wholesale copy and pasting while drawing dicks in the margin.

The Orville has lost 70+% of its debut audience, and continues to bleed ratings precisely because its little more than dumbed down filler 30 year olf TNG episode drafts along with colorcoded uniforms and beige sets to make nostalgists swoon. That's what I call a failure. Disco has instead done all what CBS has asked of it and more, unexpectedly high subscribing to CBSAA, lots of chatter about the show around the world, enough to greenlight multiple spinnoffs for fans of the present and future. So, no, not a failure in any meaningful way (other than pandering to TNG nostalgists, canon worshipers and Orvillies) and a huge success in all the ways that actually matter.

 

[BillJ]

Smart is not how I would describe the Orville. It's only if you consider copying your essay from someone else's written 30 years ago that got a C and add a few jokes while dumbing it down across the board with slightly updated references but maintaining the 30 year old cliches and stereotypes.

As far as I am concerned Killjoys and the recently departed The Last Ship offered a much closer TOS vibe than Seth's vanity project ever has. And at least they haven't stooped to the laziness inherent to wholesale copy and pasting while drawing dicks in the margin.

The Orville has lost 70+% of its debut audience, and continues to bleed ratings precisely because its little more than dumbed down filler 30 year olf TNG episode drafts along with colorcoded uniforms and beige sets to make nostalgists swoon. That's what I call a failure. Disco has instead done all what CBS has asked of it and more, unexpectedly high subscribing to CBSAA, lots of chatter about the show around the world, enough to greenlight multiple spinnoffs for fans of the present and future. So, no, not a failure in any meaningful way (other than pandering to TNG nostalgists, canon worshipers and Orvillies) and a huge success in all the ways that actually matter.

If you slapped "Star Trek" on The Orville and removed the Trek components from Discovery, the shows would likely be in the exact opposite positions they are now. Never underestimate the power of branding.

Just an FYI, Discovery has spent the last two years pandering just as hard to the Trek nostalgia crowd. And The Orville isn't the only one using color coded uniforms.

 

[fireproof78]

Just an FYI, Discovery has spent the last two years pandering just as hard to the Trek nostalgia crowd. And The Orville isn't the only one using color coded uniforms.

Are we offended by color coded uniforms now? Because, Stargate Atlantis would like a word with you.

Also, while I appreciate the Orville and its efforts, it does not draw me in with the characters like DSC did with Michael. Bortus was probably the closest for me, but it all felt very inconsequential.

 

[BillJ]

Are we offended by color coded uniforms now?

You have to ask @Alan Roi...

The Orville has lost 70+% of its debut audience, and continues to bleed ratings precisely because its little more than dumbed down filler 30 year olf TNG episode drafts along with colorcoded uniforms...

 

[BillJ]

Also, while I appreciate the Orville and its efforts, it does not draw me in with the characters like DSC did with Michael.

Which is fair. But it is ludicrous to blast The Orville for nostalgia when Discovery hasn't been shy about its use going all the way back to "The Vulcan Hello".

 

[Lord Garth]

Are we offended by color coded uniforms now?

They're on overdrive. That's nice. Have to have something to talk about for the next ____ months. Might as well make a game of it now.

I would, except I'll be washing my hair.

 

[fireproof78]

Which is fair. But it is ludicrous to blast The Orville for nostalgia when Discovery hasn't been shy about its use going all the way back to "The Vulcan Hello".

It's all in the application, which, for me, as been mixed, at best, with Orville.

 

[BillJ]

It's all in the application, which, for me, as been mixed, at best, with Orville.

Different strokes and all that.

 

[fireproof78]

Different strokes and all that.

Yup. But, our society is one of nostalgia now. We do not want new, different or unexpected. Our popular culture and media is no different in that reflection.

 

[Vger23]

It's all in the application, which, for me, as been mixed, at best, with Orville.

Agreed.

And "nostalgia" takes on different forms. There's imitation (Orville), and there's reference/incorporation (Discovery). I much prefer the latter.

Doesn't mean there isn't a place for the former...but it's just not as strong a preference of mine.

 

[BillJ]

Yup. But, our society is one of nostalgia now. We do not want new, different or unexpected. Our popular culture and media is no different in that reflection.

Just going with what's bankable. I wouldn't have a hard time slapping a Star Trek label on a show if it increases the chance I get my tens of millions I've invested back.

 

[seigezunt]

Which is fair. But it is ludicrous to blast The Orville for nostalgia when Discovery hasn't been shy about its use going all the way back to "The Vulcan Hello".

Somehow, for me, TNG nostalgia feels much more dated than TOS nostalgia, especially since the nostalgia that DSC engages in is mostly through the narrative, and generally just through its easter eggs. I think it would be more on par (in a bad way) with Orville if it engaged in fan film-style aping the TOS look. Which frankly is how the Orville comes across.

 

[BillJ]

Somehow, for me, TNG nostalgia feels much more dated than TOS nostalgia, especially since the nostalgia that DSC engages in is mostly through the narrative, and generally just through its easter eggs. I think it would be more on par (in a bad way) with Orville if it engaged in fan film-style aping the TOS look. Which frankly is how the Orville comes across.

I feel the exact opposite. The constant nudging in my ribs of "See! This is Star Trek!" has really distanced me from Discovery. I got that it is Star Trek when I saw the arrowhead badges and warp nacelles. The mimicking of a set style really doesn't bother me when it comes to The Orville. Because there is so much fun and relatable characters there.

As always, it is a "mileage may vary" kind of situation.

 

[fireproof78]

Just going with what's bankable. I wouldn't have a hard time slapping a Star Trek label on a show if it increases the chance I get my tens of millions I've invested back.

Yeah. When it's my millions on the line I could be cautious too.

Agreed.

And "nostalgia" takes on different forms. There's imitation (Orville), and there's reference/incorporation (Discovery). I much prefer the latter.

Doesn't mean there isn't a place for the former...but it's just not as strong a preference of mine.

Same here. One feels like an expansion of a world, while the either feels like a very limited impersonation. Like, if I was doing a Robin Williams impression but only used Aladdin as reference.

 

[Alan Roi]

Which is fair. But it is ludicrous to blast The Orville for nostalgia when Discovery hasn't been shy about its use going all the way back to "The Vulcan Hello".

Tell that to all those who rioted online about how Spock having a sister was tanamount to heresy and how flat out rejected the 'Klingon's as presented as orcs. Tell me how that was pandering to nostalgia. Tell me how making a show that desconstructs and updates the look of the franchise to the point where folks state it has to take place in the Kelvin or other alternate universe is again, pandering to nostalgia. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

 

[fireproof78]

Tell that to all those who rioted online about how Spock having a sister was tanamount to heresy and how flat out condemned the 'Klingon's as orcs. Tell me how that was pandering to nostalgia.

Because she was Sarek's "daughter" (not actually but ward doesn't sound as heretical) and dared to reference Spock.

 

[Mudd]

Just going with what's bankable. I wouldn't have a hard time slapping a Star Trek label on a show if it increases the chance I get my tens of millions I've invested back.

Well, there's their motive.

 

[Alan Roi]

Yup. But, our society is one of nostalgia now. We do not want new, different or unexpected. Our popular culture and media is no different in that reflection.

I would disagree. I think rampant nostalgia for the good old days is in in a lot of ways an echo of the death rattle of the baby boom generation who are desperate to hang on to what they hold dear, while younger generations who don't value what they did are offering a collective shrug. It not the formerly most in control generation driving the bus anymore and I understand why they are not happy. Me, I'm a Gen Xer, so I've never fit in with that crowd.

 

[Mudd]

Which is fair. But it is ludicrous to blast The Orville for nostalgia when Discovery hasn't been shy about its use going all the way back to "The Vulcan Hello".

Nostalgia has nothing to do with my fondness for The Orville. The nostalgic aspect was gone for me after the second episode.

 

[fireproof78]

I would disagree. I think rampant nostalgia for the good old days is in in a lot of ways an echo of the death rattle of the baby boom generation who are desperate to hang on to what they hold dear, while younger generations who don't value what they did are offering a collective shrug. It not the formerly most in control generation driving the bus anymore and I understand why they are not happy..

Well, it is a rather large segment of the population, but your point is well taken. However, I am not seeing any indications of change with the Nintendo nostalgia, and on and on.