JJ's era and excess if not unfair blame on Rian Johnson

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Qonundrum, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    pt1:


    pt2:


    ^^ouch. The definitive explanation.

    It's common knowledge TFA wasn't a story or had any real foundation or plan (not because it's a glossy but uninspired remake of IV with some basic differences, many of which don't add up much less get reasonably addressed), or that there was no plan for the trilogy (contrary to what Midnight's Edge was ranting about recently, as articles in 2017* were already spelling out what TFA openly hinted at) but that video really spells out some worthwhile details that go beyond a shadow of a doubt in proving TFA had little apart from great visuals and nostalgia, and that there was little - if not nothing - plotted for a continuing saga.

    * many are still easily found from Google

    IMHO, he's often right - Johnson had few options and all the in-jokes about burning the past and all that were aimed at TFA. And how many characters had a lot of genuine potential. But the video speaks for itself. Rian was backed into a corner. Whatever criticisms of TLJ are, and there is potential in that movie, I'm, not alone in thinking Rian's gotten a raw deal.

    But I do disagree with him, Ren via his often unpredictable actions were more palpable without that mask he wore. Or if he got a design that was halfway decent, I do agree that a mask or face painting is the stereotype accorded villains. (Now, the masks do look good for the Knights based on portraits I've seen, but Ren himself needed an outfit that was above and beyond.)

    And "deconstruction" - I disagree. I (believe) he was trying to expand the universe while getting around the silly and/or illoglcal limitations imposed by TFA. Or maybe "deconstruction" does fit, TFA was such a shallow movie that there was no other way to try to save the franchise than to take the path Rian took.

    And, of course, IV-VI didn't have too much of a set plan (Amongst other issues, Leia being the key since in VI she says she's always known she's a Jedi who's his sibling and, oops, she frenched him in V and increasingly had googley-eyes for him in IV...) I-III had the end result of the plan already there (Anakin becomes Darth but IV-VI gave out enough information that I-III don't fit in perfectly pristinely... so even TFA gets undue criticism when it comes to "But muh written in detail in advance plotting!"...)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
    Bad Thoughts and Armus like this.
  2. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    You make a movie that makes $2 billion dollars? That to me is the opposite of killing a franchise. As far as not having a plan? Having everything set in stone is not the way to attract more talented filmmakers to the franchise.
     
    Turtletrekker, ichab, Campe and 4 others like this.
  3. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Location:
    Tenacity
    carrie fisher completely ruined episode nine by dying, how inconsiderate of her.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    I thought a straight jacket assured creativity?
     
    Turtletrekker and Awesome Possum like this.
  5. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Who knew that the definitive explanation could be found in some asshole's YouTube video? Mind blowing.
     
    Turtletrekker and Campe like this.
  6. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2001
    Location:
    Earth
    Creativity is bad though because you might get things that are different. People want the same over and over again, like McDonalds.
     
    fireproof78 and Kemaiku like this.
  7. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    The same people who don't want things that are different are complaining when things are the same.
     
  8. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    Personally, most of my problems with TLJ had pretty much nothing to do with where the pieces were left at the end of TFA.
     
    Infern0 and Noname Given like this.
  9. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2001
    Location:
    Earth
    So they just complain about everything? I’d stop watching at that point.
     
    fireproof78 likes this.
  10. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    There are people such as myself that find fulfillment in finding flaws in everything. I just happen to be self aware about it, and try not to drag others down.
     
  11. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    Both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi had noteable flaws, but for me TLJ surpassed them and delivered a rewarding experience, whereas TFA was destroyed by them.
     
    Awesome Possum likes this.
  12. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Yeah, they do. But I had a blast with both at the theater, which is the whole point of going to the movies for me.
     
    Ralphis, Nerys Myk and Campe like this.
  13. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Yes - my fandom consists of - "was this worth the ticket price and three hours of my life".
     
    Campe and Relayer1 like this.
  14. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    I'm a bit more involved and critical of Star Trek, but for pretty much everything else this is my standard.
     
  15. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2001
    Location:
    Earth
    The movie is literally about flaws and learning from them.
     
    saddestmoon, Ralphis, Masiral and 2 others like this.
  16. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    If only fans had been up in arms over the terrible dialogue and nauseating romance of Attack of the Clones.
     
  17. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2001
    Location:
    Earth
    Oh we were, we’ve had memes for years. Not so much anger, that’s the way of the Sith. We just mocked it for 17 years.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This is the proper way to deal with this. Don’t hate, turn it into joy.

    Then there is this genius work of art.

    This channel has done Episodes 1-6 just like this. It’s amazing, watch them all.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Yes...if only...
     
  19. Alejandro

    Alejandro Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    The sequels are masterpieces if compared with the prequels. Hard to understand how the fans are complaining so much about the new films. Disney/LFL are doing a great job so far. The weakest for me was Solo, but its still a good movie.
     
    Vasquez Rocks and Awesome Possum like this.
  20. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2001
    Location:
    Earth
    Yeah, Solo wasn't a movie that needed to be made. But it was a fun ride.
     
    Galileo7 and Alejandro like this.