Spoilers The Flash - Season 5

[Professor Zoom]

Clearly you are not a parent.

Definitely a modern parental threat...and since she is new to this stuff and learned a lot of secrets not told in the Flash museum...hard for her to debate it

And speaking as a parent, I found it incredibly difficult to believe a parent would dump a child into the future for lying. Sure. It’s a big lie. But, it would take a whole lot after a long time for me to abandon my child.

But then, maybe this show is about how Barry becomes the worst.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

And speaking as a parent, I found it incredibly difficult to believe a parent would dump a child into the future for lying. Sure. It’s a big lie. But, it would take a whole lot after a long time for me to abandon my child.

But then, maybe this show is about how Barry becomes the worst.

He brought her home. Where she lives and belongs. Truthfully away from the dangers she's finding in the past.
That's not abandonment.

 

[Romulan_spy]

And speaking as a parent, I found it incredibly difficult to believe a parent would dump a child into the future for lying.

It was his future but it was not her future. He was not dumping her into the future, he was sending her back to her home and her present where she came from. The fact is that she always would have returned to her present in 2049. She could not stay with past Barry and past Iris. This was certainly not the circumstances in which she wanted to make her journey back home. I am sure Nora was hoping to have a good time with past Barry, get a chance to meet her dad, learn from the Flash and then go back home on good happy terms. Instead, she went home on bad terms with Barry, with him angry and distrustful. That was heart breaking, although I am hoping it gets fixed.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

He brought her home. Where she lives and belongs. Truthfully away from the dangers she's finding in the past.
That's not abandonment.

Also, her mother, Iris, would still be there for her (even with the knowledge of what Nora did in the past Iris was sympathetic to her). So yeah, it would be a stretch to say Barry abandoned Nora. My problem with Nora, as written, was she absolutely never learned from experience and youth only excuses so much.

This is definitely NOT the best written season. It hasn't even produced a truly great episode. It's been okay throughout and that's about it.

 

[Professor Zoom]

He brought her home. Where she lives and belongs. Truthfully away from the dangers she's finding in the past.
That's not abandonment.

The dangers like chatting with the Reverse Flash? The dangers like NOT being around him?

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

The dangers like chatting with the Reverse Flash? The dangers like NOT being around him?

Cicada injured her to the point of almost killing her. A few episodes later he killed all of her friends one at a time in front of her and she couldn't stop him.

In the past she faces a new threat every Tuesday. Talking is less danger than dying where I come from.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Cicada injured her to the point of almost killing her. A few episodes later he killed all of her friends one at a time in front of her and she couldn't stop him.

In the past she faces a new threat every Tuesday. Talking is less danger than dying where I come from.

Barry doesn’t trust her because she has been talking to Zoom. Rather than protect his daughter from him, he plunks her right back with him.

Rather than keeping his daughter with him to help her, he pushes her away.

Sure, she’s endanger in the present, but Barry is at least around, as well as the team to keep her safe. (Or she could just be left in the pipeline for her safety.) But dumping her in the future, there’s no team Flash and there’s the Cicada of her present.

So arguably not safer.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

So arguably not safer.

She shouldn't be in the past, end of story. She gets her mother killed (she almost has) and she won't exist.

Again. Living is safer than potentially erasing your whole existence.

There's zero argument that can ever support her living in her own past as a superhero (putting herself in immediate physical danger constantly), Barry should have done this on day one.

 

[Professor Zoom]

She shouldn't be in the past, end of story. She gets her mother killed (she almost has) and she won't exist.

The show is filled with lots of shouldn’ts once time travel is introduced.

She won’t be around if she’s not around to save Barry’s life.

Regardless of should she, she was in the past and already changed things. Who knows maybe what she changed maybe her present worse than when she left it. We don’t know.

What we do know: in our present Barry and his team ARE there and able to protect her.

Again. Living is safer than potentially erasing your whole existence.

We don’t know it’s safer.

What’s safer than being with your super powered father and his team of super geniuses that have saved the world again and again?

There's zero argument that can ever support her living in her own past as a superhero (putting herself in immediate physical danger constantly), Barry should have done this on day one.

No. There’s more than zero arguments. You disagree, but there’s a good argument that, now that she’s in the past away from Zoom, she’s safer until the end game is reached. She could NOT be a super hero. She could not participate in dangerous activity.

And who knows, paradoxically, going back in time was a way TO secure her existence.

That’s two, TWO arguments of why Barry shouldn’t have dropped her back into the future.

What Barry should’ve done is go back before she left and prevented her from going. But then, we wouldn’t have gotten this season (a pro) and/or another flashpoint (con).

 

[Romulan_spy]

Sneak Peak for tonight's episode:

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That is some great dramatic acting right there! Although it occurs to me that if Barry and Iris fight too much, it could delay or even prevent Nora's birth creating a time paradox.

 

[Kirk Prime]

That is some great dramatic acting right there! Although it occurs to me that if Barry and Iris fight too much, it could delay or even prevent Nora's birth creating a time paradox.

You can't delay her birth. You can only prevent it. If they lose that window, she's gone and is replaced.

And I would LOVE to see that happen because it would give great meaning to the season.

 

[tomalak301]

Sneak Peak for tonight's episode:

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That is some great dramatic acting right there! Although it occurs to me that if Barry and Iris fight too much, it could delay or even prevent Nora's birth creating a time paradox.

That might be the most emotion I've felt from The Flash in a long time. Really looking forward to this episode.

 

[Romulan_spy]

You can't delay her birth. You can only prevent it. If they lose that window, she's gone and is replaced.

And I would LOVE to see that happen because it would give great meaning to the season.

I still wonder if that might factor into Reverse Flash's plan: create a time paradox that allows him to avoid his execution.

 

[Finn]

Barry doesn’t trust her because she has been talking to Zoom. Rather than protect his daughter from him, he plunks her right back with him.

No. There’s more than zero arguments. You disagree, but there’s a good argument that, now that she’s in the past away from Zoom, she’s safer until the end game is reached.
(con).

What am I missing here? When did Nora interact with Zoom?

They did go further in past to get materials they needed to neutralize Cicada, but it was mostly Barry interacting with Zoom in that brief scene.

 

[Kirk Prime]

And speaking as a parent, I found it incredibly difficult to believe a parent would dump a child into the future for lying. Sure. It’s a big lie. But, it would take a whole lot after a long time for me to abandon my child.

This is a future incarnation of his daughter, who is out of time. He sent her home where she belongs, after finding out that she was working with the man that murdered his mother in front of him. That's more than a "big lie."

Iris' failure to understand that was wrong. She should have had his back. Let's not forget that Iris will see Nora again--when she raises her a second time, assuming she is born, and she can learn from her mistakes.

Barry should have done this on day one.

It's actually interesting that time wraiths or Jay Garrick didn't pay them a visit. Even though Nora was good, the risks of time travel really should have had Nora's visit be short, not months long. Barry knows he will disappear, so there's no real harm in spending a day with his daughter unless of course she blows up her own existence Marty McFly style. The smart play would have been to travel to when Nora was conceived or a baby. THEN spend the day with her father.

I still wonder if that might factor into Reverse Flash's plan: create a time paradox that allows him to avoid his execution.

I'd rather see that than Reverse Flash being reformed.

 

[Romulan_spy]

"Snow Pack"

This felt like a Big Episode. I guess we are getting closer to the finale so the writers have to move the plot forward in a big way. A lot happened in this episode. In fact, the episode felt a bit stuffed. We got the Nora plot which I think should have been the primary plot, then we got a story with Killer Frost and her family then the episode shoehorned in the Cicada plot too. We also got a lot special effects with Nora entering the Speed Force, Flash actually using his powers and a big ice battle between KF and Icicle.

Let's break it down by plot:

Nora Plot
This was a big one. We got a couple excellent dramatic scenes between Iris and Barry, and Nora and Thawne. We got the reveal about Reverse Flash creating is own "Negative Speed Force" to explain how he can time travel without Barry knowing about it. We got Nora channeling all her negative emotions and accessing that Negative Speed Force. Although, I am afraid that Nora going to the Dark Side will probably end up being a bit pointless since the Flash is a happy show. I doubt Nora will stay "evil". She will most likely be saved and come back to the Good Side. However, this episode, with all its talk about family sticking together, seemed to really telegraph the probable ending that Nora will come back to the Good Side but have to sacrifice herself or gets wiped out of existence.

I am curious about Thawne though. The show definitely wants us to believe that Thawne has changed. He talks lovingly and softly about Nora, his "little runner". Thawne, even advises Iris to help Nora and that they need to stick together. Iris even tells Barry at the end about how Thawne seems to really care about Nora. Is Thawne just sympathetic to Nora or does he have some actual direct connection to her? I still think that Thawne is scheming something. My guess is that Nora is the key to Thawne avoiding his execution and that is why he is being so nice to her. Obviously, he does not really love her or care about her. He is just using her.

Killer Frost Plot
It was nice to get a follow up on Caitlin's family. And the theme of family runs through this entire episode. I have to say though that Icicle feels like a very campy villain. I did love the ice battle between icicle and KF! And nice to see Caitlin and her mom start to patch things up.

Cicada Plot
It felt tacked on but I guess we needed a follow up since we've not heard much about Cicada in a few episodes and Cicada is supposed to be a main villain. Not much to say really. It makes sense for Cicada to protect her younger self in a coma. If anything were to happen to the girl in a coma, her future self would be in peril. It seems like Cicada wants to use the macguffin to maybe put her younger self in cryo?

 

[Christopher]

My guess is that Nora is the key to Thawne avoiding his execution and that is why he is being so nice to her. Obviously, he does not really love her or care about her. He is just using her.

I think that Thawne is certainly manipulating Nora, but that doesn't mean he hasn't genuinely come to care for her. If Malcolm Merlyn and Damien Darhk could redeem themselves through their love of their daughters, maybe Thawne's feelings for Nora as a surrogate daughter of sorts could open the door for his redemption.

I like how this reflects the "Wells"/Barry relationship in season 1. Thawne/Wells was using Barry all along, but he genuinely enjoyed mentoring him and teaching him to use his powers, and he developed a genuine respect and appreciation for him, even though it wasn't enough to cancel out his hatred. Now he has another Allen speedster to mentor, and the relationship is similar. But maybe the outcome will be different this time.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Last night's episode ("Snow Pack") was mostly excellent, and what wasn't "excellent" was "good." What really impressed me the most was the scene right off the top with Iris and Barry going at it. For the first time in this series an argument felt real and not some contrived "Acting 101" exercise. Candice Patton and Grant Gustin totally committed and it was wonderful.

Thawne may care for Nora Allen, but then again he developed an affection for Cisco as well but that didn't stop Reverse Flash from killing him. Thawne is definitely scheming to save his life and Nora is certainly key to that plan. I like that Nora will listen to Thawne more readily than her own parents as that's a sad slice of reality too. Anyone who has been a parent knows that frustration.

Sherloque Wells is, so far, my favorite take on the Wells character.

Have to say the Snow family storyline was fine. It was the norm for this series. Competently written and performed. Standing on it's own, a "C+."

 

[Professor Zoom]

Look at that: Barry abandons Nora because she was working with Professor Zoom and the first thing she does... goes right back to talking to him.

Good decision, Bar Bar. Rather than keeping her close, you gave her right back to the bad guy.

Edited to add: Watching Professor Zoom turn Nora to the dark side, I wonder, is this whole episode one big argument why it was a terrible decision for Barry to abandon Nora? Huh. I wonder who could have seen that coming... I wonder who... But, nah, couldn’t be. I was told there were zero arguments to keep Nora in the present.

 

[Snaploud]

I still like my theory that Thawne feels paternal toward Nora because she only came into existence as a result of Thawne messing with the timeline.

What am I missing here? When did Nora interact with Zoom?

They did go further in past to get materials they needed to neutralize Cicada, but it was mostly Barry interacting with Zoom in that brief scene.

Eobard Thawne was also known as Professor Zoom in the comics. I don't think he ever used the Zoom name in the current tv show, but you have to give a little latitude given that it's a poster called @Professor Zoom making those comments.