Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"

[Kemaiku]

That's fine, but such caring should be done stoically and professionally with expressing only the absolute minimum feelings necessary.

*Android plays with a cat*

Oh my god so cute!

*People send letters to loved ones*

No, stop being so...human damnit, pew pew!

 

[Alan Roi]

TOS had lots of sentimentality. The Kirk-Spock-McCoy scenes were dripping with it.

"The Empath" alone contains more warm, fuzzy sentimentality than some entire series probably do.

Spock was routinely castigated for his demonstrative lack of emotion even though it tended to be more 'heart on his sleeves' than just about anyone was able to provoke out of Jean Luc.

 

[cooleddie74]

Spock's actions in "The Empath(TOS)" to spare Kirk from torture at the hands of the Vians are not only heartwarming but executed without Leonard Nimoy raising the intensity or volume of his voice above where it normally was when he spoke dialogue. He displays no outward emotion whatsoever when he incapacitates Kirk and offers to take his place as the next officer to be tortured yet still demonstrates his hidden love for his friend and desire to spare him from any further physical pain.

Sentimentality can be written as overly sappy to the point of making viewers gag or roll their eyes or it can be crafted so well that two characters can express affection and loyalty for one another by barely speaking a word. Sometimes just one or two lines of dialogue and facial expressions convey more affection and kindness than entire scenes.

 

[XCV330]

Spock's actions in "The Empath(TOS)" to spare Kirk from torture at the hands of the Vians are not only heartwarming but executed without Leonard Nimoy raising the intensity or volume of his voice above where it normally was when he spoke dialogue. He displays no outward emotion whatsoever when he incapacitates Kirk and offers to take his place as the next officer to be tortured yet still demonstrates his hidden love for his friend and desire to spare him from any further physical pain.

Sentimentality can be written as overly sappy to the point of making viewers gag or roll their eyes or it can be crafted so well that two characters can express affection and loyalty for one another by barely speaking a word. Sometimes just one or two lines of dialogue and facial expressions convey more affection and kindness than entire scenes.

It's an older film now, but I loved how 2010 handled that for Heywood Floyd. He knows he might never see his family again, and his son will be grown by the time he gets back. They've discussed it. In the end he looks in on his son sadly before he leaves for his launch. That's that.

 

[Alan Roi]

It's an older film now, but I loved how 2010 handled that for Heywood Floyd. He knows he might never see his family again, and his son will be grown by the time he gets back. They've discussed it. In the end he looks in on his son sadly before he leaves for his launch. That's that.

One of the reasons I enjoyed 2010 far more than 2001. Hyams decided people would be important to the story he was telling.

 

[Alan Roi]

Spock's actions in "The Empath(TOS)" to spare Kirk from torture at the hands of the Vians are not only heartwarming but executed without Leonard Nimoy raising the intensity or volume of his voice above where it normally was when he spoke dialogue. He displays no outward emotion whatsoever when he incapacitates Kirk and offers to take his place as the next officer to be tortured yet still demonstrates his hidden love for his friend and desire to spare him from any further physical pain.

Sentimentality can be written as overly sappy to the point of making viewers gag or roll their eyes or it can be crafted so well that two characters can express affection and loyalty for one another by barely speaking a word. Sometimes just one or two lines of dialogue and facial expressions convey more affection and kindness than entire scenes.

And as but a single tool in a large toolbox it shouldn't be overused as a catch-all either. If you want more than just a reserved emotional response from the audience, more than just a slight change in expression is often required.

 

[Longinus]

Nothing wrong with sentimentality. It was really just a pacing issue; packing so many emotional scenes one after another sapped their strength.

 

[Alan Roi]

Nothing wrong with sentimentality. It was really just a pacing issue; packing so many emotional scenes one after another sapped their strength.

I saw it as like the ending of LOTR. A lot of people complained that it was also too long, but was just the right length, IMO to cap a huge 10+ hour story. As S2 of Disco is of similar length, IMO, it seemed equally not overdone.

 

[GNDN18]

Spock's actions in "The Empath(TOS)" to spare Kirk from torture at the hands of the Vians are not only heartwarming but executed without Leonard Nimoy raising the intensity or volume of his voice above where it normally was when he spoke dialogue. He displays no outward emotion whatsoever when he incapacitates Kirk and offers to take his place as the next officer to be tortured yet still demonstrates his hidden love for his friend and desire to spare him from any further physical pain.

Sentimentality can be written as overly sappy to the point of making viewers gag or roll their eyes or it can be crafted so well that two characters can express affection and loyalty for one another by barely speaking a word. Sometimes just one or two lines of dialogue and facial expressions convey more affection and kindness than entire scenes.

Not quite the same, perhaps, but this one-two punch from “The Immunity Syndrome” comes to mind.

 

[Succubint]

I'm glad that they didn't rob individual characters of their more emotional scenes. Their reality was that they were going on a one way mission, possibly one that would end in death, cut off from all that they previously knew. It makes perfect sense that they would make their last goodbyes to their loved ones and be briefly sentimental about it. Actually (as being discussed in the chat thread) I'm glad the writers have allowed for open emotional displays, in general.

Stoicism may have its place, but I think it's greatly over-rated and I think it shouldn't be commended as the best or only acceptable reaction to extreme circumstances or news. Just my personal opinion, but I think the world would be a far far better place if people didn't have to bottle up their emotions and expressed them more often (and were given emotional support) rather than leading to explosive behaviors.

It's understandable though, that some viewers might find it excessively maudlin or over-sentimental if its something they are not used to seeing. I've seen my dad cry over election results, or in response to a disaster or mass shooting on the news. He's a veteran of Vietnam. I don't view him as an overly sentimental person. I think it's a healthy human response, demonstrating empathy, compassion and connection to other human beings. In my opinion, it should be encouraged not ridiculed.

 

[Quinton]

I'm glad that they didn't rob individual characters of their more emotional scenes. Their reality was that they were going on a one way mission, possibly one that would end in death, cut off from all that they previously knew. It makes perfect sense that they would make their last goodbyes to their loved ones and be briefly sentimental about it. Actually (as being discussed in the chat thread) I'm glad the writers have allowed for open emotional displays, in general.

Stoicism may have its place, but I think it's greatly over-rated and I think it shouldn't be commended as the best or only acceptable reaction to extreme circumstances or news. Just my personal opinion, but I think the world would be a far far better place if people didn't have to bottle up their emotions and expressed them more often (and were given emotional support) rather than leading to explosive behaviors.

It's understandable though, that some viewers might find it excessively maudlin or over-sentimental if its something they are not used to seeing. I've seen my dad cry over election results, or in response to a disaster or mass shooting on the news. He's a veteran of Vietnam. I don't view him as an overly sentimental person. I think it's a healthy human response, demonstrating empathy, compassion and connection to other human beings. In my opinion, it should be encouraged not ridiculed.

Great post. I don’t have anything to add — I can only say that I echo your sentiments.

 

[DEWLine]

Stoicism has its place in humanity's toolkit.
But it's not for everyone, nor for all situations.

 

[Lord Garth]

Discovery Paradox #1: "It doesn't feel enough like Star Trek!" "It feels too much like Star Trek!"

Discovery Paradox #2: "They should focus on characters besides TOS!" "I don't like these new characters!"

Discovery Paradox #3: "Why don't they develop these characters?" "These moments with the characters are filler!"

Discovery Paradox #4: "They should introduce new things!" "Why didn't we hear about these things in TOS or TNG?"

 

[Noname Given]

It is ironic that the best-written character in DSC may well be a character first created in 1964 for a failed pilot for a series that went off the air 48 years before DSC ever existed.

What? Spock's been in EVERY TOS era episode post pilot.

[Hey, I DO think they did a great job here with Spock as well as PIke ]

 

[SolarisOne]

What? Spock's been in EVERY TOS era episode post pilot.

While Spock has been good, Pike has been exemplary.

 

[Mr Awe]

And often they are the same people.

Exactly! But, they don't like that being pointed out!

 

[Kelthaz]

I'm glad that they didn't rob individual characters of their more emotional scenes. Their reality was that they were going on a one way mission, possibly one that would end in death, cut off from all that they previously knew. It makes perfect sense that they would make their last goodbyes to their loved ones and be briefly sentimental about it. Actually (as being discussed in the chat thread) I'm glad the writers have allowed for open emotional displays, in general.

Stoicism may have its place, but I think it's greatly over-rated and I think it shouldn't be commended as the best or only acceptable reaction to extreme circumstances or news. Just my personal opinion, but I think the world would be a far far better place if people didn't have to bottle up their emotions and expressed them more often (and were given emotional support) rather than leading to explosive behaviors.

It's understandable though, that some viewers might find it excessively maudlin or over-sentimental if its something they are not used to seeing. I've seen my dad cry over election results, or in response to a disaster or mass shooting on the news. He's a veteran of Vietnam. I don't view him as an overly sentimental person. I think it's a healthy human response, demonstrating empathy, compassion and connection to other human beings. In my opinion, it should be encouraged not ridiculed.

We're not talking about real life here. We're talking about fictional characters on a TV show, so how people should or should not express their emotions in real life really doesn't enter into the conversation. I'm not opposed to the sappiness of this season because I'm uncomfortable seeing people express emotion in real life and I don't appreciate you trying to psychoanalyze me based on my opinions on a TV show. This season, especially the last episode, is going very heavy on the emotional moments and those moments are unearned. It's one scene after another with characters acting melodramatic or dealing with some profound crisis that leaves them emotionally broken. Have we even had a single episode this season where Michael doesn't break down into tears? It's too much and with characters that I haven't grown attached to yet.

 

[Mr Awe]

All those oversentimental goodbyes are not justified and could easily have saved 10 minutes or more of runtime (at least they felt like they could). Definitely feeling they would have been better off doing a tighter movie length season finale.

My suspicion is that these goodbyes are needed thanks to the events that transpire in the finale. That if these goodbyes didn't occur there would be complaints that they didn't have the opportunity. In other words, I'm guessing that the extent of these goodbyes indicate that Discovery will really be time jumping or otherwise completely separated from their families and loved ones. Those are going to be permanent goodbyes. The writers know this and found a way to work them in the story beforehand because presumably there won't be a chance in the finale itself--in the thick of the action.

In other words, all those emotional goodbyes convinced me that, yes, we're leaving the 23rd century for good.

 

[GNDN18]

I would kill to have the characters get together and … chill out in the mess hall.

 

[Alan Roi]

My suspicion is that these goodbyes are needed thanks to the events that transpire in the finale. That if these goodbye didn't occur there would be complaints that they didn't have the opportunity. In other words, I'm guessing that the extent of these goodbyes indicate that Discovery will really be time jumping or otherwise completely separated from their families and loved ones. Those are going to be permanent goodbyes. The writers know this and found a way to work them in the story beforehand because presumably there won't be a chance in the finale itself--in the thick of the action.

In other words, all those emotional goodbyes convinced me that, yes, we're leaving the 23rd century for good.

I guess then Starfleet will tell the families not to waste money sending any replies by next-day express and go for the cheapest sub-light class mail because for that class, 500 years should be about right.