That’s how canon works(Because hey, everything in prior Federation history MUST be stated on the screen....).
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Spock hasn't cried, so it can't be as bad as TOS or TMP yet.
I predict he will in the finale, just because.
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Gonzo
Guest
I was only born in 1980 so I wasnt really aware of most of the heavier issues with the show at the time.For me (an old TOS fan) back then. The Visuals weren't the problem - they were a bright spot. The problem was the wholesale retcon of many TOS elements:
- The 'Prime Directive' defectively now applying to ANY 'Non-Federation Member Planet'.
- There being some arbitrary 'Warp Factor' speed limit of 10 and somehow Warp 10 wa 'infinite/everywhere at once' speed. (Th 1701 had dome Warp 14, and in TAS Warp 37 was mentioned. And yes, the whole "It's a NEW Warp scale.." rang bogus/hollow, as it seems many TNG Season 1 staff had never seen any TOS episode (and GR didn't want them to either.)
^^^
And basically THAT attitude of GR towards TOS at that point in time (because back in the day, he sold the Star Trek (TOS) IP right to Paramount, so he could make money off of it, but part of his deal to do/make TNG was that he was going to get a share of the merchandising so for him TOS was dead and buried and TNG was the ONLY Star Trek now) -- was what upset me and a number of TOS era fans back then; and why he was so into retconning/changing TOWS elements.
It was also why he planned to 'remake one or more TOS scripts a season; until Paramount saw the fan reaction to "The Naked Now" and thankfully put their foot down and told GR, "No, you won't remake anymore TOS scripts for TNG..." (1988-89 WGA strike not withstanding of course - although those were unproduced 'Star Trek Phase II' scripts.)
This is what most of it boils down to for me. It feels like there could be a really good show in there somewhere, with a stellar cast.
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Gonzo
Guest
That is great, I look forward to seeing how they are going to remove the AI from the timeline (which is their intention) without it having a domino effect throughout the events we have witnessed in the show.
I wish them luck, they are going to need it.
So in other words, it WASN'T, official. Why make such a big deal about it? Thanks.
When is the last time you have heard Central American political developments discussed with a mention of Wiliam Walker, the Tennessee adventurer who nearly conqured Central America to set up his own little empire in hopes of having it admitted to the states, and yet in some ways his actions set the tone for the next century and a half. People, even very bright people forget historical contexts all the time. And if all people remember (due to much of the controversy being hidden) was that the telecommunication system was disrupted for a day or so, well, worse things have happened.
Potentially losing his sister forever, yes we've established Spock is emotional about that kind of thing.
And that’s the thing. I don’t have issues with the cast, including SMG. I think they do a fine job with what they are given. The problem is imagine how great this cast can be with better writing. This would be a great series already.
And that will feel earned because we have seen that relationship grow throughout the season.
While I admit William Walker doesn't mention in US-based news, I wouldn't be surprised if he's all the talk in Central America, which was actually affected (someone from there would have to confirm, anyone here?)
Of course Sloan and 24th century Section 31 won't talk about news that makes them look bad, but Bashir and the Federation would.
Oh, the casting is probably the best in the history of the franchise. I think Martin-Green has done a great job with rather poor material. The writing lets them down more often than not.
We'll see what Michelle Paradise brings to the table next season.
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Gonzo
Guest
Neither is what we have seen until we know what changes messing with the timeline causes.
This is the problem when you start messing with cause and effect.
You are most welcome by the way.
That’s how canon works
Yes and no. If it's mentioned on screen, then it is canon.
However, something that is not mentioned onscreen does not mean that canon tells us it didn't happen. Please excuse the use of the multiple negatives
.If a certain thing was never mentioned on screen -- for example, Scotty never mentioned siblings -- the idea that Scotty DOES have siblings is fair game. Until we find out onscreen if he has siblings or not, then canon could be said to be completely silent on the issue.
Just because he didn't mention siblings doesn't mean he has none -- although he might have none.
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Hrmm...looking over the transcript from Calypso, we know the following:
- Zora's been waiting for the crew for "almost 1,000 years." She says this twice. It's clear that it's not that she jumped 1,000 years, but that this is the time which has passed subjectively.
- The last shuttle onboard was delivered just before the crew abandoned ship, and was never used
- Zora's last order from the captain was to "maintain position."
They're not going to remove it from the timeline, they're just going to stop it.
The difficulty with retconning Sec 31 as well known into continuity with Bashir as well, and I admit it freely, Bashir was kind of a history reenactment nut AND he loved spy genre stuff, so he would have known presumably quite a lot about the older version of Section 31. I don't have an answer for that, apart from him treating them like two seperate things, one a skulky latter day pretender that adopted the same name. It's a stretch, I know.
I'm sorry. I seem to be missing something. Can you please remind me again where it was stated in Star Trek that the Klingon War had never happened or was just a series of minor skirmishes? I'm still missing seeing this keystone that your whole point is resting on.
A great episode. I hope they find some way to bring Kelsey Grammer aboard if they get the chance.
I am still betting on a huge RESET. With Discovery and crew ending up in 28th, or whatever, century (hey CBSAA still needs to make money somehow) but TOS timeline is reset and no one there even knows Discovery ever existed.
If "if" they do a reset, I hope they do it sooner versus later.
