Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"

[Vger23]

The TOS Enterprise was a Starship Class.

In my headcannon, Starfleet adapted a new ship classification system, during the TOS years. That led to the ship moving from "Starship Class" to the more specific "Constitution Class"

I've... got mixed feelings about where the show's going. I'm weird, I do not want Discovery to jump into the 28th century; I like it just where it is. Burnahm and Spock's relationship is something I'd like to see continue into and beyond his tenure in TOS, for example. I'd like Tilly to get her captaincy and rub shoulders with Kirk and co on another Constitution. I'd like more run-ins with TOS people and places. It's a nice segway into remembering Star Trek at the beginning, before TNG made us try so hard to forget it.

I don't want to "appease canon" when the show's done so much to make us love a new crew in this time and place.

Agreed. I like Discovery and I like the 23rd Century setting. I think it's been fun getting some back story to TOS and exploring those characters and the era more deeply. It had so much less attention than the 24th century or even the 22nd century got.

I'm enjoying the ride, but I have mixed feelings about a change in setting.

 

[Captain Shaw]

Opps I meant to give it a 8.
This is the first time since the pilot that I have been pumped for an up coming episode.

 

[Longinus]

Even assuming that Enterprise could outrun and outgun Discovery "easily," why are we acting like this would just be a "normal" ship battle with no outside factors? We aren't talking simply about a battle between two ships. We are talking about a battle that would have to be concluded in a matter of minutes before the Section 31 fleet arrived, with the wildcard being that the characters having no clue what else the sphere data may do or go with Discovery.

No, there was over an hour. They build the Red Angel suit after it. That's right, building a top secret time travel suit from scratch was considered easier than managing to destroy one bloody ship!

 

[Noname Given]

I'm also having trouble with the logic of why sending the ship into the future is such a sure-fire fix for their problem. The future is not some impossibly unreachable place! All you have to do is not die, and you will get to the future eventually. I feel like we have no reason to believe Control is ever going to die, so why does sending the ship to the future help at all?

(I mean, if all sentient life in the galaxy is to be wiped out one way or another, better to have it be later than sooner, a lot more living will be done in that time -- but no one seems to be regarding this as a long delaying tactic, the crew seems to consider it a permanent resolution of the threat, and it just baffles me as to why)

Agreed.

The entire conceit of their belief is Burham's mother's statement that - "There's no technology there..." (IE 900 years in the future - IE somehow Control is totally destroyed, but that doesn't change the fact that all sentient life was wiped out first).

I call that a conceit because once they change the timeline so that sentient life ISN'T wiped out - there WILL be technology there - and Control now knowing that (as a result of the timeline change) could still lay dormant until it finds out: "Hey, the Discovery and Sphere Data is available again..."
^^^
It doesn't matter HOW far in the future that scenario plays out as it will STILL lead to the end of all sentient life at some point <--- Which is what they are attempting to prevent.

ORIGINALLY the plan was to copy all data to the suit and send the suit into the actual time stream - travelling forever until the end of time; and thus Control never having a way to 'catch' the data. This new plan - Just throwing the Discovery ahead in time (to whatever year they end up in); just makes zero sense as an ultimate solution as a result, and it's a shame (unless something happens in the final episode that's different) the writers just either seem to not realize this; or they hope the audience who pays attention to this kind of set up just won't notice...

 

[Yistaan]

In my headcannon, Starfleet adapted a new ship classification system, during the TOS years. That led to the ship moving from "Starship Class" to the more specific "Constitution Class"



Agreed. I like Discovery and I like the 23rd Century setting. I think it's been fun getting some back story to TOS and exploring those characters and the era more deeply. It had so much less attention than the 24th century or even the 22nd century got.

I'm enjoying the ride, but I have mixed feelings about a change in setting.

If Discovery spends the entire next season in the far future, that suddenly turns the new Picard show into a prequel with a pre-defined endpoint. The prequel problem of having a preordained future is thus offloaded from Discovery to Picard, and doesn't actually solve the prequel problem.

If Discovery's season(s) in the far future are just an alternate timeline, then basically everything they do there will be magically erased, possibly upsetting a lot of fans.

 

[Kor]

Major question--why isn't sarek alerting the rest of Starfleet to help out discovery at their location?

Diplomatic reasons.

Kor

 

[XCV330]

In my headcannon, Starfleet adapted a new ship classification system, during the TOS years. That led to the ship moving from "Starship Class" to the more specific "Constitution Class"

There's a graphic in Space Seed that shows Constitution Class. Defiant's plaque said Constitution Class, whereas USS Franklin is ALSO a Starship Class.

It could also be that starship class was a UESPA naming convention and the more specific class variants were a Starfleet thing.

 

[ITDUDE]

the writers just either seem to not realize this; or they hope the audience who pays attention to this kind of set up just won't notice...

A bit of both. There have been so many issues with plot this whole season, writers realizing they are manufacturing one plot hole after another, that at some point they are like "screw it, there is no nice way of handling this, couple more plot holes won't make things any worse. let's just end this season asap, and start from scratch in 28th century next season"

 

[XCV330]

Major question--why isn't sarek alerting the rest of Starfleet to help out discovery at their location?

In dialogue during the episode they mention that Control had disabled subspace relays. Essentially communications were disrupted across the UFP.

 

[Kemaiku]

That and any ship coming to Discovery or Enterprise's rescue, is probably getting attacked by Section 31 as well. And Sarek may not currently have any authority in Starfleet given his son's "crimes" until those are cleared.

 

[saladdays]

No, there was over an hour. They build the Red Angel suit after it. That's right, building a top secret time travel suit from scratch was considered easier than managing to destroy one bloody ship!

That was the time from when the Enterprise first arrived, correct? I mean from when they had everything done and transferred over to Enterprise from Discovery.

 

[Longinus]

That was the time from when the Enterprise first arrived, correct? I mean from when they had everything done and transferred over to Enterprise from Discovery.

From the failed self destruct attempt. The crazy timesuit plan was what they came up after the self destruct failed.

 

[Seven of Five]

A big step up from the last couple of episodes. Pike's big speech about having been proud to serve with such a fine crew was brilliantly done. As was watching everyone record their goodbye messages to their families. We've seen crews get into tough situations before on other series, but it was refreshing to see the emotion.

The Enterprise looked so cool, it was a nice Discovery-style upgrade, whilst keeping the essentials. Loved it!

I hope the conclusion to the season plays better than last year. The Klingon War just kind of ended.

I think a season in the future is where we are heading for next year. Some of the goodbyes were pretty final.

 

[saladdays]

From the failed self destruct attempt. The crazy timesuit plan was what they came up after the self destruct failed.

Oh, OK. My times were screwed up.

 

[Gonzo]

Sounds like TNG Season 1 <--- Yet that show ran for 7 Seasons.

Yeah very similar situation, there had been no Star Trek for a long time and it took a while to get the format right which they did.

Same with Discovery.

At the time it also polarised the fan base although not to the extent that Discovery has, if I remember correctly there were quite a few who were not happy about the direction of TNG at the time, that goes for the visuals and the story lines as they were rather different to ToS and it took some time to adjust.

 

[XCV330]

A big step up from the last couple of episodes. Pike's big speech about having been proud to serve with such a fine crew was brilliantly done. As was watching everyone record their goodbye messages to their families. We've seen crews get into tough situations before on other series, but it was refreshing to see the emotion.

The Enterprise looked so cool, it was a nice Discovery-style upgrade, whilst keeping the essentials. Loved it!

I hope the conclusion to the season plays better than last year. The Klingon War just kind of ended.

I think a season in the future is where we are heading for next year. Some of the goodbyes were pretty final.

Its strange. In the end they are a family of a crew mostly hand picked by Gabriel Lorca, except for Spock, of course. Sniff.. the cold manipulating neer-do-well would be so proud.

 

[Quinton]

Thrilled to see the stuff about the team jumping into the future is incredibly likely now. I’ve had fun in the 23rd century these past two seasons, but it has never been my favorite Star Trek setting. Even if this forward momentum is somehow temporary I will surely treasure it.

Now the big question is whether they’ll land 950 years in the future or somewhere around 2400. As much as I think it would be fun to see the latter, there are already some breadcrumbs tantalizing fans for the notion of seeing more of the 33rd century, so that seems likelier.

 

[eschaton]

No, there was over an hour. They build the Red Angel suit after it. That's right, building a top secret time travel suit from scratch was considered easier than managing to destroy one bloody ship!

In fairness, since Michael had access to all of her mother's logs, it's possible that the specifications for the suit were already in there, so all they had to do was basically upload the program into the Discovery computer and replicate it.

 

[XCV330]

If Discovery spends the entire next season in the far future, that suddenly turns the new Picard show into a prequel with a pre-defined endpoint. The prequel problem of having a preordained future is thus offloaded from Discovery to Picard, and doesn't actually solve the prequel problem.

If Discovery's season(s) in the far future are just an alternate timeline, then basically everything they do there will be magically erased, possibly upsetting a lot of fans.

There comes a point (almost any point in my opinion but no matter) where people can get way too worried at prequels boxing a story in.

If they're not even in the same century (several I suspect) as Star Trek: Last of the Summer Wine or whatever the Picard thing ends up being called, what does it matter? I dont really care what time line it is in. I really dont

 

[Kemaiku]

They're jumping to the 28th century, about 300 years in the future of the Picard series. There's no cross over, that series already has it's own premise that doesn't sound like it's tying into DSC at all.