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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"

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They did, however, make it clear from the start of the season that Section 31 has been working by largely compromising the Starfleet subspace comms network to spy on everyone, and cut off all communications if need be. Or fake/alter what communications it needs to.

Good luck calling for help when no one can hear you.
 
Well, speaking only for myself for a moment, I intimately know the realities of TV production because working in TV has been almost the entirety of my professional career. I also aspired to be a showrunner at one point, and chose to step off the track when I realized that the realities of the job would make me miserable -- being a showrunner requires an enormous amount of time, work, and stress, and at one point I finally saw that I simply don't want my life to involve that much work and that much wrangling of bullshit from idiotic executives. (Heh, this just gave me great flashbacks to a time early in my career when I was assistant to a mostly absentee showrunner, phoning it in at the end of a long career, and since I could never reach him and he rarely showed up and department heads were always clamoring for decisions on urgent production matters, I started just making the decisions myself and claiming I had gotten them from boss on the phone. I was a bold 24 year old!)

But also, I didn't actually need to have any of those experiences for it to be valid for me to criticize Disco on a discussion board. TV exists to be watched and responded to by fans. Every showrunner I've ever worked with would kill to have a site like this about their show (on one of my first PA jobs, in the days where MySpace was the only social media, this was one of my job duties -- print up the discussion threads from the shows discussion boards, highlight the most interesting comments and deliver them to the producers)

You are right that there's a way of criticizing a show that's obnoxious and personal about the creators in a way that's uncalled for, but that wasn't happening in the post you were responding to.

And I also basically agree with your approach to Discovery -- I find it enormously frustrating, but there's many aspects about it I love and I try to focus on those. But we're allowed to speak the complaints.

Get outta' here with all your logic, nuance and experience!

Sorry bud, that was unfair of me, it was just too good to pass up :beer:

Naw, no problem! In fact, please continue to point out my most egregious English mistakes - I got no other chance to learn them!:guffaw:
 
Control could've just followed him as well.

There has to be elements of Starfleet that aren't under its banner, heck there are only Section 31 ships chasing them. They made Control a bogey man without any real form or parameters.

How could they possibly know Control's full parameters? Its a program from the future which has infiltrated Star Fleet computer systems.
 
That's why you break the ship's power generators first. The whole dilemma is blatantly absurd. It is completely ludicrous that they couldn't figure out a way to destroy a ship inside to which they had free access.

They needed all of the ships power transfer systems online to spead the overload of the core and burnout the computer systems, ie the whole point of blowing her up...

I got the feeling that if they sat there bombarding Discovery until the shields caved in, that would give time for Control's fleet to intercept and prevent it.

Also that, they did not have the time.
 
How could they possibly know Control's full parameters? Its a program from the future which has infiltrated Star Fleet computer system.

From an audience perspective, we should be able to glean at least some limitation to its workings.

Did it come from the future? I thought it evolved from a Section 31 analytical program? Maybe I'm confusing it with the David Mack book.
 
That and Pike and Georgiou(Prime) knew each other. Pike suspected something was off with NuGeorgiou on their first meeting, stating something was amiss in a discussion with Burnham and Micheal promising to fill him in at some point. Maybe that conversation happened, hence Pike's *wink* when saying "What Mirror Universe?".
He should have said .... "I Know"

;)
 
I'm imagining this standard being used on DS9. Like, getting bored with having Odo be standoffish after two seasons. Or bored with Quark being greedy. Or bored with Garak being distrustful.

Ugh.

And I was thinking of it in relation to the Trill -- imagine the DS9 producers made "Dax" in season 1 and then said "well, we've fully covered what it means to be be a joined species with that!", and then sci-fi-ishly transformed her into some new type of being in season 2.
 
From an audience perspective, we should be able to glean at least some limitation to its workings.

Did it come from the future? I thought it evolved from a Section 31 analytical program? Maybe I'm confusing it with the David Mack book.
I hadn't thought of that till you said that. There are some parallels. Adaptive learning, etc. Spock and Michael teamup. Pike vs Georgiou..
 
From an audience perspective, we should be able to glean at least some limitation to its workings.

Did it come from the future? I thought it evolved from a Section 31 analytical program? Maybe I'm confusing it with the David Mack book.

It certainly sounds like you are confused. Did you not remember the robot probe from the future infecting Airiam?
 
I hadn't thought of that till you said that. There are some parallels.

I'm about halfway through Section 31: Control, I think it plays a heck of a lot better than what Discovery is doing with the idea.
 
I got the feeling that if they sat there bombarding Discovery until the shields caved in, that would give time for Control's fleet to intercept and prevent it.
On second viewing, it seems that Enterprise never actually fires at Discovery. The scene where it does is part of Burnham's vision, then it jumps back to when the auto destruct fails and Pike is ordering them to arm torpedoes. Burnham stops then before they actually fire them. She might have seen more that we didn't.

Also, am I the only one thinking that torpedo lodged in Enterprise looks rather large compared to what normally see?
 
The 23rd Century version of Control didn't go off the ranch until after the probe from the future infected Airiam. its a simple sequence of events. She gets infected. Saru reports unauthorized messages being sent. Control stops talking to Starfleet. Hard to miss.
I don't think it's that clear. Control seemed to have been arranging circumstances to its own needs for some time. It wasn't filling people with grey goo yet, necessarily. Until the squid thing returned from the future it did not know that it needed sphere data (and i am beginning to think we aren't going to be told what it was it needed off the sphere)


On second viewing, it seems that Enterprise never actually fires at Discovery. The scene where it does is part of Burnham's vision, then it jumps back to when the auto destruct fails and Pike is ordering them to arm torpedoes. Burnham stops then before they actually fire them. She might have seen more that we didn't.

Also, am I the only one thinking that torpedo lodged in Enterprise looks rather large compared to what normally see?
yes. it looked more like some kind of breaching pod.
 
I'm also having trouble with the logic of why sending the ship into the future is such a sure-fire fix for their problem. The future is not some impossibly unreachable place! All you have to do is not die, and you will get to the future eventually. I feel like we have no reason to believe Control is ever going to die, so why does sending the ship to the future help at all?

(I mean, if all sentient life in the galaxy is to be wiped out one way or another, better to have it be later than sooner, a lot more living will be done in that time -- but no one seems to be regarding this as a long delaying tactic, the crew seems to consider it a permanent resolution of the threat, and it just baffles me as to why)
 
They needed all of the ships power transfer systems online to spead the overload of the core and burnout the computer systems, ie the whole point of blowing her up...
I literally do not understand what you're saying here.

Also that, they did not have the time.
They had over an hour. Easily time to burn through the shields, that should take couple of minutes at most. And of course, if they wanted to do something else, they had all the time in the world. With the spore drive, they could have evaded the S31 ships pretty much infidelity. The whole dilemma was utterly false on so many levels.
 
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