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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"

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I found it super-odd that Pike had no issue with a bunch of qualified officers ditching Starfleet/Federation while there are still Section 31/Control attempting to take over the 23rd century.

Control seems to still be a handful even without being sentient.
 
Okay, I got some opinions about this episode:
  1. I really mostly liked what was on screen this episode
  2. I don't think I like what they are setting up for the series' future
Recap
This episode consisted mostly of completely ridiculous and arbitrary technobabble set-up scenes explaining why they have to go to the future. And the other half was long, emotional good-bye scenes between the characters that are meant to leave. Pretty much confirming the "DISCO will jump to the future"-theories (because otherwise everything would have been completely pointless). Thrown in there LOTS of TOS bones for the fans, to such a degree this episode is very well a backdoor pilot for a Pike-Enterprise series.

Review
The problem is:
For the most part this is only franchise management. Often directly going in the way of natural storytelling.

I really, really wish they would have got "Discovery" the show on really solid ground for a few seasons before announcing spin-off shows. Instead, they're putting the cart before the horse, and stealing the show's own thunder to use it to set up future spin-offs. I really think thworing the Discovery into the future isn't a great idea. I'd much rather wish they try to actually follow through on being that re-imagined prequel, and would only try to get better at it, instead of completely throwing the premise out of the window and trying to create a competely new show from scratch.

Problems for the FIinale
The most serious issue I see is that - like last season - the finale has to cover a LOT of ground now. It literally has to solve ALL the plot issues, work as a conclusion for the entire season, and at the same time still explain the main mystery of the season (the signals). And probably work as a set-up for a complete re-vamp, for future seasons, and we'll probably see Control become the Borg in the final five minutes.

All of which while using most of it's screen time for a big battle.

Be prepared folks, that like last season, the next episode might not be able to be neatless solve the entire season in 45 minutes. I really wish they would have learned from previous arcs - the Dominion war arc(s) and the Xindi-arc both took the time and resolved most of their recurring plot elements in the episodes before the grand finale, so that that they all got the time and focus they deserve. Throwing all in a single episode again might lead up to overload. Again.


What I liked
  • The original Enterprise was nice. SO many little details, designs and on and on. To be honest - this is how a TOS era prequel show should have looked like right from the beginning. That being said - I really wish they would nudge the Discovery herself into that direction, instead of handing the prequel baton over to Pike's Enterprise and fuck off to the future. I like the Enterprise as shown here - but I still don't care about another prequel series
  • Most of the character scenes were really well handled.
  • The red angel pulling humans for New Eden finally made (a bit of) sense - setting up a future human colony for Ma Burnham, so that she isn't alone, without polluting the timeline by picking up people that were otherwise about to die. I mean, she could have gotten humans that were about to die from her own timeline (say, from a doomed ship in the Klingon war) - but that was fine as well.
Neutral observation
  • The scene with the unfolding "evacuation corridors" from the Enterprise to the Discovery looked kinda' goofy.:lol: But I like some good, old engineering, and corridors are IMO much better than beaming everyone onver. I just wish the "walls" were maybe fabric (like in real spaceships) instead of force-fields...

What I didn't like
  • Sooo.... the Short Treks really were essential viewing? That's bad, especially since they were dumped on Netflix without warning. I knew about them. But my friends watching the show who aren't hanging around on Trek forums didn't even knew they existed
  • The technobabble was atrocious - even for Star Trek. Yes, they tried to make it "cool" with supernova explosions, lots of cute giddiness and human analogies. But that doesn't cover up that - as far as Treknobabbel went - this one was bad. Usually technobabbel was used as filler. But now it isn't used to serve the plot - it IS the plot! All the big goodbyes were only because that lousy technobabbel didn't allowed for other solutions (like blowing up the ship with a good old torpedo next to the warp core...)
  • Sarek and Amanda arriving on a ship in crisis, say goodbye, and fuck off. Without bringin any help. That scene would have worked better as a hologram communication (with "help can't reach you in time").
  • Tyler chosing Section 31 (that is about to destroy the universe) over saving the universe with Michael and going into an unknown future didn't make a lick of sense - it wasn't character motivated, but because he's cast in the spin-off S3 show. Franchise-management.

Final Grade
8/10
As I said - I liked MOST of the single elements of this episode. The only real issue I have is with the franchise management taking over. Whenevery they actually DO focus on their characters and stuff, it's actually pretty great.
 
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I will be very surprised if CBS passes up the opportunity to lead in to a full Pike/Enterprise series.

Not surprised CBS are keeping quiet about it though, its also dependant on whether or not Mount, Peck and Romjin-Stamos want to do it.

They built a whole new set just for the Enterprise bridge, that is a good sign.

I think they would have signed on as part of their deal for Discovery. My opinion is they are keeping a Pike series quiet so as not to overshadow Discovery season 2. I think all along one of the main purposes of Discovery Season 2 is to set up a Pike series. If this is the case, it would also mean the Enterprise bridge was built using the Pike series budget and not the Discovery series budget.
 
And to add to my previous post, if there was no plan for a Pike show I think they would have jumped to the far future coming out of the mirror universe in season 1 rather than now.
 
And to add to my previous post, if there was no plan for a Pike show I think they would have jumped to the far future coming out of the mirror universe in season 1 rather than now.

They couldn't milk a season of Spock if they had jumped immediately to the future after the Mirror Universe arc.
 
8/10. There is so much I liked about this episode that i can't be typing it all out. I need to get a time crystal, build a time suit and jump through a wormhole to next week because the suspense is going to kill me. Never thought I'd get the chance to be excited over a trek cliffhanger again but here we are.
 
People keep asking why Sarek didn't bring help. They very clearly stated at least twice that Control knocked out the subspace relay network. They could only communicate ship-to-ship.

Yes, its an obnoxious plot contrivance in order to separate our hero ship(s) from the rest of Starfleet (a la "We're the only ship in the quadrant").

But don't let it be said that it wasn't said.
 
I found it super-odd that Pike had no issue with a bunch of qualified officers ditching Starfleet/Federation while there are still Section 31/Control attempting to take over the 23rd century.

Control seems to still be a handful even without being sentient.
Discovery leaving with the crew is going to cause a dark alternative future where Control is waging war on the galaxy and they have to find a way to fix it all.
 
I think they would have signed on as part of their deal for Discovery. My opinion is they are keeping a Pike series quiet so as not to overshadow Discovery season 2. I think all along a main purpose of Discovery Season 2 is to set up a Pike series. If this is the case, it would also mean the Enterprise bridge was built using the Pike series budget and not the Discovery series budget.
I am not so sure, with what happened last season I think it would have been understandable for them to wait to see how the new characters and Enterprise are received before they throw money at it.

I doubt they have a budget in place for Pike/Enterprise yet so it would be the Discovery budget that is used which makes it even more telling that they did not just redress another set instead.

Any series that has the Enterprise in it will inevitably overshadow Discovery I do not think that can be avoided, perhaps CBS have decided to separate Enterprise from the Discovery show earlier than intended so they can move the timetable forward, we just do not know for sure.

We may never know what the original intentions were for the series both before the changes were made in season one and the two writers were sacked in season two.

Perhaps the decision was made to shorten Discovery run but go all in and setup a big lead in to an Enterprise show.

As for the actors all we can say is that Mount and Romjjin-Stamos were contracted for one season only, any work they do on a new show would require a new contract and negotiation which may already have been done to ensure they are locked in and cant be taken elsewhere.

For all we know CBS does not and never did have any intention to have an Pike/Enterprise show and intend to go in a completely different direction.

Two aspects make me doubt the above though.

1. Suspicious that we have not heard about Pecks contract, knowing his status would be a dead giveaway at this point.

2. No movement yet on the Georgiou/S31 show or Picard, I would have thought they would be full steam ahead by now if they want to have a Star Trek show on CBS all year round, I think they may be holding off to make space for Pike/Enterprise instead.

Whether or not that was always the plan remains to be seen.
 
Usually my episode-to-episode opinion on Discovery tracks pretty well with the overall consensus, but this... I really did not like.

They've just so overdone all the emotion at this point. I've gotten used to how manipulative this show is OK with being, and so I'm not getting much from their tricks anymore. Through most of the emotional scenes here I was just eye-rolling along, thinking how The Same it all is to a few weeks ago when The Only Way was for Michael to torture herself to death by suffocating on the planet.

That being said, I liked many of the execution details. Obviously the Enterprise design was great, the way the dialogue was distributed in the planning scenes and the dynamic between the characters there was good.

But at the core, there was nothing. The center of this episode was empty emotional manipulation, of the exact same kind we've been repeatedly subjected to all year, and moving chess pieces around for the finale. I found watching this episode a very hollow, unmoving, frustrating experience.
 
And to add to my previous post, if there was no plan for a Pike show I think they would have jumped to the far future coming out of the mirror universe in season 1 rather than now.
I think the issues during production of season one screwed all that up more than anything else.

Perhaps one day we will find out what really happened behind the scenes and what was originally planned.

BTW Have not seen the episode yet, should not be long though, spoilers do not bother me as I have read through the thread.
 
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Since Mr. and Mrs. Sarek meandered on over to the Discovery for a few minutes for no real reason, while they were on lockdown and red alert from an incoming deadly enemy, maybe he should've brought the Captain on Vulcan that the ship was supposed to pick up in Brother. That would've solved Pike's dilemma over who to promote to Captain out of the one option he had (he must really hate Saru).
 
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