Is anyone but kirk complaining?
Spoilers Captain Marvel - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Didn't people complain for the gender bender of the Ancient One in Doctor Strange too? Or it was the whitewashing? Or both?
Both.
They would have complained more, if the Ancient One was half of as a stereotype as anyone from Big Trouble in Little China.
Yes.
Kurt Russel is a ragin' stereotype.
Yes.
Kurt Russel is a ragin' stereotype.
You’ve missed the entire point of the movie. Her arc is overcoming the brainwashing and gaslighting done to her by the Kree. She was constantly told her emotions were a weakness and to not use her powers, something that only benefited the Kree since they wanted to control her and erase what remains of Carol. As soon as she’s on her own and away from their constant reinforcement, it fades. As her memories return, she realizes she’s been lied to the whole time. Her fight with Jude Law is her confronting her abuser and without giving him what he wants because his control over her is gone.
“Through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered I have fought my way here to the desert plains beyond the secret airforce base to take back my agency that you have stolen, for my will is as strong as yours and my humanity as great. You have no power over me!”
Yeah, I got all that; I just didn't find it very compelling. The movie underplays the arc too, IMO, as Carol never seems particularly shocked or haunted by the possibly innocent lives she's presumably taken offscreen, and when she turns against Jude Law, she only seems mildly peeved at him.
Maybe it wasn’t made for you and that’s why it’s not connecting.
Maybe. Of course, some of those it was "made for" are rating it higher than it actually deserves, based on said particular appeal, just as many guys have overrated a whole lot of crappy James Bond and other such male-centric fantasies over the years. After all, it's not as though the movie is unanimously bowling over female critics:
RogerEbert.com, Christy Lemire
So why does Captain Marvel feel like a bit of a disappointment? It’s fine and often quite funny. It fits securely within the MCU but also functions sufficiently as a stand-alone entity. But the character, and the tremendous actress playing her in Oscar-winner Brie Larson, deserved more than fine.
The Associated Press, Lindsey Bahr
I spent over two hours with Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers and I still have no idea what her personality is. Sure, there’s a lot more going on in Captain Marvel, but it’s a pretty egregious failing considering that the creative bigwigs at Marvel had 10 years and 20 films to work it out. Read full review
The Observer (UK), Wendy Ide
It’s just a pity that the movie that introduces her is so unremarkable.
Slate, Dana Stevens
From what we’ve seen of her so far, Captain Marvel may not be the most complex or finely shaded of the MCU protagonists. But given that she’s the first woman to be charged with the duty of saving this cinematic universe, I for one totally support her avenging.
Time, Stephanie Zacharek
By the time I got to the end of Captain Marvel...I heard the voice of my own inner superhero, Peggy Lee, whispering in my ear: Is that all there is? The most heinous supervillain of all is Boredom.
... Or maybe all these female critics are sexists and/or elitest superhero movie-haters? Or maybe they've all never been gaslit or manipulated by men, so the movie wasn't exactly "made for them," either?
I'm not saying anyone's wrong for enjoying or even loving Captain Marvel. I thought it was fine. But it sure as heck ain't a classic. IMHO. Of course, I think Superman: The Movie is crap on a stick, and that's still widely beloved decades later, so,
...
Climb off your cross. You didn’t connect to a movie, others did. It just wasn’t for you. Some connect with movies that I can’t connect to. You’re way too eager to argue about shit.Maybe. Of course, some of those it was "made for" are rating it higher than it actually deserves, based on said particular appeal, just as many guys have overrated a whole lot of crappy James Bond and other such male-centric fantasies over the years. After all, it's not as though the movie is unanimously bowling over female critics:
RogerEbert.com, Christy Lemire
So why does Captain Marvel feel like a bit of a disappointment? It’s fine and often quite funny. It fits securely within the MCU but also functions sufficiently as a stand-alone entity. But the character, and the tremendous actress playing her in Oscar-winner Brie Larson, deserved more than fine.
The Associated Press, Lindsey Bahr
I spent over two hours with Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers and I still have no idea what her personality is. Sure, there’s a lot more going on in Captain Marvel, but it’s a pretty egregious failing considering that the creative bigwigs at Marvel had 10 years and 20 films to work it out. Read full review
The Observer (UK), Wendy Ide
It’s just a pity that the movie that introduces her is so unremarkable.
Slate, Dana Stevens
From what we’ve seen of her so far, Captain Marvel may not be the most complex or finely shaded of the MCU protagonists. But given that she’s the first woman to be charged with the duty of saving this cinematic universe, I for one totally support her avenging.
Time, Stephanie Zacharek
By the time I got to the end of Captain Marvel...I heard the voice of my own inner superhero, Peggy Lee, whispering in my ear: Is that all there is? The most heinous supervillain of all is Boredom.
... Or maybe all these female critics are sexists and/or elitest superhero movie-haters? Or maybe they've all never been gaslit or manipulated by men, so the movie wasn't exactly "made for them," either?
I'm not saying anyone's wrong for enjoying or even loving Captain Marvel. I thought it was fine. But it sure as heck ain't a classic. IMHO. Of course, I think Superman: The Movie is crap on a stick, and that's still widely beloved decades later, so,
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Sorry, I thought this was a "Grading & Discussion" thread about a pop culture superhero flick. My bad!
Appeals to authority are meaningless shite. The movie worked, it worked fine, great even.
With copy and paste?
The movie didn't work for you, too bad. Try Shazam!
Holy idiotic Rule 63, Batman. Yeah, its not Mar-Vell if the character is a woman. You can change the race of a character with generally no real effect, but gender swapping does just make it a different character, full stop. Also, while I removed it from the quote, good job using the term "triggered" like you're the kind of 13 year old troll who hates on female lead stuff like this.
So, looking at normal reviewers online it seems like CM is pretty much a standard MCU film, on the lower end of "not bad". I'll still hate it as a fan of the comic character, but its getting about what I expected review wise. Basically its not Wonder Woman by any stretch, but its not a bad film. It could have been better, but its not a failure. Hopefully the Black Widow movie has better people attached to it.
The Doctor disagrees, as does Dr Watson and her buddies Captain Starbuck and Dr Smith....
Actually thinking about it, lots of doctors and captains in fiction seem to be up to it
Well, to be "fair," a lot of manbabies cried about that one, too.
I've liked the idea ever since '78 and Jane Foster went hammer time.Well, to be "fair," a lot of manbabies cried about that one, too.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/What_If?_Vol_1_10
Both Thor and Lokii...
Then talk about the movie and don’t try to turn it into the bullshit notion that the real sexists are the ones pointing out sexism or other delusional nonsense.Sorry, I thought this was a "Grading & Discussion" thread about a pop culture superhero flick. My bad!
Well, to be "fair," a lot of manbabies cried about that one, too.
And people were upset about Starbuck and Boomer too.
So, a character from the version of Sherlock Holmes that nobody cares about, and a character from the version of Lost In Space that is probably the third most popular version of the show, somehow justify a random Mar-Vell gender swap? The 13th Doctor is fairly mediocre, but thats more down to the godawful writing and at least The Doctor getting gender swapped made sense and could work if the character wasn't written by a moron.
Anyway, having a fake Mar-Vell doesn't really bother me, because the character of Mar-Vell was always pretty shit. Its just funny how pointless it was, but the whole movie is a giant "fuck you" to Carol Danvers and every version of Marvel's Captain Marvel anyway, so a pointless gender swap is the least of its issues.
No, it wouldn't be crazy. It would be a very shitty comic, and it was, but it obviously happened.
Well, to be "fair," a lot of manbabies cried about that one, too.
God forbid people think that Lady Thor just sucked because it was poorly written. I didn't hate the Jane Thorster run because of the characters gender, I hate all of Jason Aaron's Thor work in general. Lady thor was still a better concept then "Future Thor from a timeline that will never exist where everyone is dead teaming up with real Thor and shitty past Thor", and it might have actually worked with a better writer (and if they didn't have the original Thor lose his powers and his freaking birth name because an evil space Nick Fury brainwashed Mjolnir with some random bullshit).
Still, Lady Thor is long gone and never coming back, and not that many people give a shit in the end. Now, X-23 not being Wolverine anymore is what personally ticks me off. That was a good character replacement story arc, and one that made sense and was written well.
Loki stole Lady Sif's body for a few issues of a few comics years ago, then gave it up. It was a minor plot point, not exactly the same thing as Jane Thorster. Loki only did it to fuck with Thor, part of a plan to actually kill Lady Sif by trapping her in a dying old human woman when all the Asgardians came back after Ragnarok (this was in JMS's excellent, but sadly fairly short, Thor run).
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