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News FOX selling out to Disney?

^ In the time since that interview, Legion's version of Xavier has been cast and I believe that the show has been confirmed to be an alternate timeline to the two presented by the XMCU films.

I also believe that The Gifted has likewise been confirmed to take place in an alternate timeline to the two XMCU filmic timelines.

To be fair, Legion is only in an alternate timeline because 20th Century Fox execs wouldn't let Hawley have Patrick Stewart (who was very, very vocal about wanting to appear on the show and was Hawley's original choice) or James McAvoy. Just pretend that Game of Thrones' Harry Lloyd is James McAvoy, and boom. Same universe as originally intended by showrunner Noah Hawley.
 
^ It was never Hawley's intention, as far as I am aware, for Legion to be directly linked to the films because of the nature of its premise relative to them.

And Patrick Stewart being open to the idea of guesting on Legion is ultimately meaningless in terms of how it connects to the films.
 
^ It was never Hawley's intention, as far as I am aware, for Legion to be directly linked to the films because of the nature of its premise relative to them.

And Patrick Stewart being open to the idea of guesting on Legion is ultimately meaningless in terms of how it connects to the films.

1) It was always Hawley's intention that Legion directly connected to the films. He even frequently touted (and still does) that Legion's unique premise of being seen entirely through the eyes of an unreliable narrator that suffered from schizophrenia allowed the show to take place in the same timeline as the movies while giving them enough wiggle room that they didn't have to worry about any continuity errors with the still ongoing films. Any and all continuity errors were simply delusions in David's head.

2) Showrunner Noah Hawley wanted Patrick Stewart to play David's father Professor X in Legion. Patrick Stewart was very, very vocal that he wanted to play David's father Professor X in Legion. And Patrick Stewart was adamant that the only thing he was willing to reprise the role of David's father Professor X in post-Logan was Legion. In what freaking world is that "meaningless"?!

EDIT: Sorry if I spoiled a plot point from a late 80s comic arc to prove a point, but come on man. You couldn't get any more connected than that if you tried.
 
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^ Given that, as far as I know, it is Hawley himself who used the word "alternate" to describe Legion's relationship to the XMCU films, I stand by my earlier comments.
 
^ Given that, as far as I know, it is Hawley himself who used the word "alternate" to describe Legion's relationship to the XMCU films, I stand by my earlier comments.

And given that Hawley as recently as eleven months ago was still lobbying to get permission to use Patrick Stewart, I sure as hell stand by mine. You and the 20th Century Fox execs may be of the opinion that Legion takes place in an alternate universe, but authorial intent matters. Legion is part of the same universe as the mainline X-Men films and Deadpool. Your opinion and executive meddling don't change Hawley's original intent.

And casting another actor in McAvoy's place as a young Xavier doesn't suddenly make him not McAvoy's younger Xavier. This isn't the first time nor the last time that the recasting of a major role took place in a franchise. Unless you think Don Cheadle's Rhodey and Mark Ruffalo's Banner are imposters and the real Rhodey and Banner are in dead in a ditch somewhere.
 
^ It was never Hawley's intention, as far as I am aware, for Legion to be directly linked to the films because of the nature of its premise relative to them.

Sorry for the double post. Something just occurred to me. Hawley gave interviews in the lead up to Legion's series premiere saying that Legion was connected to the movies, but existed in a "separate world" crossover-wise from Manny Coto & Evan Katz's then-in-development Hellfire Club TV series (meaning that Hellfire Club is a straightforward spin-off whereas Legion is a surreal mindfuck making crossovers between the two rather difficult tone-wise). I think you're misconstruing those two things.

He also said that despite the connection to the “X-Men” films, fans shouldn’t expect to see James McAvoy, who has played a younger Professor X in the last three films (Patrick Stewart has played the older version, returning to the role in “Logan”), to show up in the first season. “My hope is to create something that is so strong,” Hawley said, “that the people at the movie studio call up and go, ‘We’d be foolish not to connect these two things.'”
https://www.thewrap.com/legion-connect-x-men-movies-fx/

Where does it fit in the larger X-Men cinematic universe?
It's conceived more as a standalone. I don't want to say too much more about it on that level, but certainly it's not constructed as a back-door anything. It's more just that there's a story that I want to explore that has to fit into that larger universe, which is exciting.

Legion and Hellfire were announced at the same time; will there be any crossover, or are they separate worlds?
I think more the latter. We certainly haven't had any conversations about crossovers. I don't know anything about it, but I think that one is more linearly taken out of the world of the movies. Ours has its own world to it.
https://www.tvinsider.com/47661/far...eveals-details-behind-his-x-men-pilot-legion/
 
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And given that Hawley as recently as eleven months ago was still lobbying to get permission to use Patrick Stewart, I sure as hell stand by mine. You and the 20th Century Fox execs may be of the opinion that Legion takes place in an alternate universe, but authorial intent matters. Legion is part of the same universe as the mainline X-Men films and Deadpool. Your opinion and executive meddling don't change Hawley's original intent.

Fandom today has too black-and-white a mindset about continuity, that either two works share a "universe" or they're completely separate. That's not how fiction really works, though. All fictional "realities" are just stories, and one story can pretend to take place in a version of the other's world without the other story reciprocating. TV history is full of TV adaptations/spinoffs of movies that purported to be set in the same universe as the movies but were then ignored by later movie sequels -- or that changed elements of the movie continuity to better fit the needs of the series, so that they pretended to be in continuity but actually weren't.

Continuity is just a storytelling device, like any other. It's not a real thing, just an idea that stories use in ways that serve their individual needs. Story A may find it useful to employ the pretense of continuity with story B, while story B has its own needs that require ignoring or contradicting story A. Two stories can be mutually contradictory in how they define their respective "reality," because neither one is real at all. There is no objective right answer; there's only the subjective answer of which approach is right for each specific story.

And really, the X-Men screen franchise is an odd one to attempt to apply any sort of rigid view of continuity to. The films have always been wildly inconsistent with each other, sharing only an impressionistic continuity to begin with, not unlike many movie series over the decades like Universal Monsters or Godzilla or James Bond. And Legion in particular is a wildly surreal show that defies any monolithic definition of "reality." Even if you ignore the surrealism, Legion has explicitly established the existence of an infinite multiverse within its cosmology, so it could easily be taken as an alternate timeline to the X-Men films, which already include at least two timelines of their own anyway. So that allows them to share a "reality" without really being in continuity with each other. With a multiverse, you can have it both ways.

Indeed, I remember a Fox exec talking about The Gifted in those terms, suggesting that the X-universe TV shows were parallel timelines in the same multiverse as the movies, so that they could share a lot of basic ideas and history yet still freely differ in the specifics. So they both share a continuity and don't at the same time. Which is often true of TV spinoffs of movies merely from a creative standpoint, but multiverse theory allows an in-story excuse for it too.
 
Fandom today has too black-and-white a mindset about continuity, that either two works share a "universe" or they're completely separate. That's not how fiction really works, though. All fictional "realities" are just stories, and one story can pretend to take place in a version of the other's world without the other story reciprocating. TV history is full of TV adaptations/spinoffs of movies that purported to be set in the same universe as the movies but were then ignored by later movie sequels -- or that changed elements of the movie continuity to better fit the needs of the series, so that they pretended to be in continuity but actually weren't.

Continuity is just a storytelling device, like any other. It's not a real thing, just an idea that stories use in ways that serve their individual needs. Story A may find it useful to employ the pretense of continuity with story B, while story B has its own needs that require ignoring or contradicting story A. Two stories can be mutually contradictory in how they define their respective "reality," because neither one is real at all. There is no objective right answer; there's only the subjective answer of which approach is right for each specific story.

And really, the X-Men screen franchise is an odd one to attempt to apply any sort of rigid view of continuity to. The films have always been wildly inconsistent with each other, sharing only an impressionistic continuity to begin with, not unlike many movie series over the decades like Universal Monsters or Godzilla or James Bond. And Legion in particular is a wildly surreal show that defies any monolithic definition of "reality." Even if you ignore the surrealism, Legion has explicitly established the existence of an infinite multiverse within its cosmology, so it could easily be taken as an alternate timeline to the X-Men films, which already include at least two timelines of their own anyway. So that allows them to share a "reality" without really being in continuity with each other. With a multiverse, you can have it both ways.

Indeed, I remember a Fox exec talking about The Gifted in those terms, suggesting that the X-universe TV shows were parallel timelines in the same multiverse as the movies, so that they could share a lot of basic ideas and history yet still freely differ in the specifics. So they both share a continuity and don't at the same time. Which is often true of TV spinoffs of movies merely from a creative standpoint, but multiverse theory allows an in-story excuse for it too.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make in bringing up Legion in the first place: that the nineteen-year long XMCU constitutes and occupies a singular continuity (As in a shared interconnected reality) even with its actual and perceived imperfections, contradictions, and errors (directly refuting the notion of it having been rebooted), and that it has even spawned two "Multiversal" spinoffs in Legion and The Gifted that exist in continuity with it whilst not being consistent with it.
 
I don't like the deal and maybe after people start doing some serious work of breaking up things like Facebook and Youtube they will focus on Disney. You would hope someone,someday will start giving a dam about the anti-trust laws.

How is youtube, itself or its largeness/popularity, negatively affecting you? Why should it or must it be broken up, why would that be better?

I don't even hate the first 2 Fantastic 4 movies as much as many do.

Jason

It's interesting that the conventional wisdom is that 2 (Chiklis and Evans) of the 5 main cast members were quite good but, especially with the other 3 being bad, the films still suck.
 
That would undermine the whole point of the MCU. Not to mention forcing them into a technobabble movie explaining how different universes relate to each other

That was already kind of introduced in Doctor Strange and could easily be expanded, in a very wishful-thinking sort of way that could be seen as set-up.

It's still part of the same continuity that began back in 2000 with the first X-Men film.

That kind of makes it worse that the filmmakers would still try to remake their own adaptation.
 
And Henson is completely independent? It's not owned by Warner, or Sony or anybody else?
 
And Henson is completely independent? It's not owned by Warner, or Sony or anybody else?

For now, yes. It was owned by a German media conglomerate from 2000-2003, but they went bankrupt and ownership reverted to the Henson family.
 
And the JJverse Star Trek movies are in the TMP continuity right? lol

Yeah, they are.

Awesome Possum said:
Logan takes place one year after the good future of Days of Future Past.

Six years.

To be fair, Legion is only in an alternate timeline because 20th Century Fox execs wouldn't let Hawley have Patrick Stewart (who was very, very vocal about wanting to appear on the show and was Hawley's original choice) or James McAvoy. Just pretend that Game of Thrones' Harry Lloyd is James McAvoy, and boom. Same universe as originally intended by showrunner Noah Hawley.

It seems somewhat pointless to insist that Legion is in the universe of the films given the actual content of the show. Not only does the show fail to tie into any filmverse events, but ( like The Gifted ) it's got a backstory with incidents never mentioned in the filmverse. It never even mentions the X-Men or the Brotherhood. Hell, it doesn't even seem to be sure what decade it's set in, much less which universe. It does have David giving his impression of Charles a British accent, so that comes off as a nod to the films, but that isn't much.

Now, in S1E2 (iirc) we do hear mention of time-travel class in the background. So it's certainly possible to interpret Legion as being in some 'future' ( or 'past' ) state of the filmverse timeline after an unknown number of alterations due to various time meddlers. But the lack of any clear connection to the filmverse ( so far ) effectively makes the project feel like a separate continuity for all intents and purposes.
 
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How would you break that up? Most of the information is from the search engine. I suppose you can force them to split Android off...
I don't know. I'm know I am highly skeptical of monopolies, like Disney and like Google. I see little reason for them to have more power. And I'll leave it at that as I will sound like a conspiracy theorist and don't need to derail the thread further.
 
How is youtube, itself or its largeness/popularity, negatively affecting you? Why should it or must it be broken up, why would that be better?



It's interesting that the conventional wisdom is that 2 (Chiklis and Evans) of the 5 main cast members were quite good but, especially with the other 3 being bad, the films still suck.


Because their monopolies. People get all their information from these places and they simply have to much control over what people say and here without any government oversight to make sure they aren't going to abuse their power.


Jason
 
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