This is one of the most sane and mundane posts by you I've ever seen
Supergirl - Season Four
- Thread starter Kai "the spy"
- Start date
I think Supergirl choosing to destroy the satellite was her rejecting moral compromise but leaving her alone and without allies. The events of this season have stripped the the President, DEO, her sister, the US government, and the public from her one after the other. She's made new alliances with her Superfriends (sort of a League of Justice really) but staying the course has been extremely hard this time.
Even her cousin is gone.
Sure, in a moral sense, destroying it to save lives was the right thing to do, but the compromise was that she acted illegally to do it and then lied/dissembled to the President when he asked her point-blank if she destroyed it by choice.
But she (her Supergirl side) renewed her ties with Alex this week.
America was in development of the atomic bomb was not announced to the world at its inception. National security is a thing for a reason.
Superman, Supergirl and J'onn are outliers in comparison to the invasion / global threats that have come to earth over the course of this series. No mature or rational mind would hesitate to seek a defense based on extremely dubious ideas of pacifism when the entire human species was/is in danger. There's no debating the scope and gravity of the alien threats seen since this series' debut--either it was a danger to humankind, or by saying it was not, then anyone taking that position just stripped those arc of any of their drama value.
If by "they" you mean the showrunners, then you are correct--they are generally motivated by sociopolitical concerns over Supergirl as a fantasy adventure, so without justification, characters will make sudden turns in contract to an established characterization, all to go in the direction you identified.
Sensible. Humans cannot possibly assume the innumerable alien cultures are all some UN-esque gang of benevolent creatures, and the record of humankind-threatening attacks during the timeline of the series proves that assumption to be false and naïve in the extreme.
Again--rational, but the series has drawn hard lines in the sand: the people who recognize the need for advanced security, and those who pretend there is no way to know the motives of all aliens coming to earth, all topped off by the number of threats that earth has suffered in so short a time.
There's a reason Lena, the president/Haley and Alex have all argued in favor of the human need for strength or a stronger form of defense; you could not find a collection of more disparate personalities/backgrounds and life experiences, but on this one subject, they have all made variations of the same augments, because they live in reality--not Pollyanna-ville where no threats to the survival of humankind did not come from extraterrestrials...unless they were on some other series and not Supergirl.
As noted days ago, their arguments are essentially the same as Fury's in the first Avengers movie, and there's no mature counter to their position, other than some using one born of questionable sociopolitical concerns and not--inexplicably--human survival concerns in the wake of the aforementioned threats/attacks.
To be sure, the average person does not need to receive the enhanced human treatment for a number of reasons, starting with security, as a weaponized John/Jane Q. Public cannot be assumed to possess Steve Rogers-level of morality & character. The opposite should be expected--self interest, lust for power and misusing it for selfish interests (be it "absolute authority," political interests, petty resentment, revenge motives in society, etc.), so it would be applied to a select few who are--by their nature--stripped of the worst of human instincts as we know it to be in the present day with its tendency to be a knives-at-the-ready society.
Again, you cannot expect Steve Rogers level of morality and character from the average person. There was a reason Erskine (Captain America: The First Avenger) repeated the well considered ideas of who should receive his super soldier treatment and who should not--and the right kind of person is rare, no matter what walk of life they come from. Erskine did not have full trust in government (for good reason), but had he survived, his program was to be an arm of the government. His greatest stipulation was all about the character of those who would be selected..and that's just anyone on the street.
The big issue is when you start firing guns, you had better hope that the guy you fire at goes down. The President's solution to the aliens is problematic not just because it's indiscriminate but that it very likely could result in it pissing off someone who will go Admiral Perry on humanity.
Keeping this in the DCU, imagine shooting up a New Genesis vessel or an Empire like the Dominators.
"Good" is often pragmatic, which many people fail to recognize.
Keeping this in the DCU, imagine shooting up a New Genesis vessel or an Empire like the Dominators.
"Good" is often pragmatic, which many people fail to recognize.
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I agree. That's why I think what she did was wrong but I am glad she did it because it was wrong and should provide drama as she becomes more isolated and also the public turns against her. Basically to a point where the public might even see her as a villain and when Lex comes back in the public's eye he is seen as a hero.
In fact you could say that Lex has been playing both Supergirl and Agent of Liberty, all to set up a situation where he can swoop in and be seen as someone who can save the world. The thing with the bad guy right now is you can tell he is someone who isn't naturally evil. He use to be this liberal college professor but was corrupted by his dad who was racist and also a string of bad things that happened to him. Lex though is more evil at his core. He knows how to manipulate both Supergirl's faith in people and the bad guys angered corruption to his advantage.
Jason
I think that's a stretch. I mean, only we, the viewers, know that Supergirl destroyed the satellite by choice rather than necessity. And that satellite came within seconds of destroying the White House, and it was launched secretly without going through the proper authorities, so its very existence is bound to be hugely controversial. Sure, people who are politically aligned with Baker and Agent Liberty will try to paint Supergirl as the villain, but I think many others would think she saved them from a dangerous mistake on Baker's part.
Maybe. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I think the idea of giant laser almost destroying the White House is going to make people really afraid and they will want to know what happened. If they get hold of the true story and find out aliens and Supergirl had something to do with I think that will drive even more people into what Agent of Liberty is saying.
How they found out i'm not sure. Perhaps Satelite photo's or maybe Supergirl feels the pressure to tell the truth. I don't see them just ignoring what happened so I feel they will address it in someway. I hope they do, at the very least. That was kind of big deal and not something you can just sort of brush of as a action story of the week like the Steroid Monsters.
Jason
How they found out i'm not sure. Perhaps Satelite photo's or maybe Supergirl feels the pressure to tell the truth. I don't see them just ignoring what happened so I feel they will address it in someway. I hope they do, at the very least. That was kind of big deal and not something you can just sort of brush of as a action story of the week like the Steroid Monsters.
Jason
Some, yes, but just look at the world today -- the entire American public is never going to agree on anything. And generally people just interpret things in the way that fits what they already want to believe. Yes, people who already hate or fear aliens are going to take this as confirmation of their fears, and people who are struggling or afraid and looking for someone to blame would be vulnerable to manipulation by the hatemongers; but people who believe in alien rights and equality are not suddenly going to turn into bigots because of a single incident.
That already set in motion, hence the reason Alex made the biggest observation of the season and this arc. Who--in their right mind--would argue against it (i.e., the necessity of Claymore or believe super soldiers are needed) after the disastrous alien attacks earth has suffered in the past 4 years of this series' timeline? Who--exactly--are the anti-earth defense group protecting? It does not read like humankind is the party being protected, and that's telling.
I understand but what I am saying that space lasers would be a game changer for many people. It would be almost like the Cuban Missile Crisis only 20 times worst and it wouldn't be to long before you start hearing talk about World War III. One could say the fact that it was built would be what upsets most and I think that would be true if the thing hadn't gotten a shot off.
Once you find out the thing wasn't just made but even used, even if it missed it's target and then you find out aliens had something to do with it then you would see many of even the most liberal become more hostile. Kind of like how tension increased in how people treated Muslims after 9/11 and also how Republicans were able to sell the idea of being against the Iraq War as not being patriotic and that fear worked for many years. This also happening in a world were they have already two invasions stopped.
It is possible though the world might be more immune than I think because Superman has been known for awhile and I guessing people are somewhat used to hearing about things like Kod and whatever plans he had in this world not to mention other dangers. But then Agent of Liberty was able to use the alien invasions to stoke fear so I ma guessing whatever Superman has faced it was never on that level or if it was the public never found out about it.
Jason
Supergirl should not be allowed back into the United States, until she plays them back for the satellite. Of course if Claymore was paid for from a black budget, exactly who is she supposed to have paid? Was it really american property, and not resources stolen from the American people by a rebel President?
Don't the White Martians handle security for the Solar System?
They are going to be the first people to flip out as Earth starts weaponizing space. Saturn might be second. I think we've met Jemm son of Saturn?
https://arrow.fandom.com/wiki/Jemm
IRL y'all now what's printed on the explodey side of a Claymore mine?
Don't the White Martians handle security for the Solar System?
They are going to be the first people to flip out as Earth starts weaponizing space. Saturn might be second. I think we've met Jemm son of Saturn?
https://arrow.fandom.com/wiki/Jemm
IRL y'all now what's printed on the explodey side of a Claymore mine?
Well that's a less than good answer once the thousands of dead start piling up and America becomes the most vulnerable country in the world to alien attack thanks to losing its living solar weapon. Worse, America's loss becomes South America or Canada's gain.
The Girl of Steel will be sporting a white cape with a maple leaf then and opening all the hockey matches as Earth deaths by accidents go up 2000% percent.
And there's the thing, Manchester Black will just waltz in and kill everyone in the White House without the Super Friends. Ironically, basically, being that you may not like the heavy handedness of the United States if you're Estonia (or you may) but you damn well want it and NATO.
The heart of Agent Liberty's failure from a purely pragmatic point is that "Earth First" deprives Earth of any advantages.
There was a Morai in the Oval office, and Baker was fine.
The Elite want Baker where he is.
Google just told me that the Moari is another word for The Fates from Greek Mythology. Which could tell us a little about this quiet member of the Elite, we don't know so much about.
Maybe it's a reference to the invisible hand of fate, or maybe the Morai are manipulative SOBs who build and raze planets for their own reasons.
The Elite want Baker where he is.
Google just told me that the Moari is another word for The Fates from Greek Mythology. Which could tell us a little about this quiet member of the Elite, we don't know so much about.
Maybe it's a reference to the invisible hand of fate, or maybe the Morai are manipulative SOBs who build and raze planets for their own reasons.
My inclination is we'll find out President Baker is under the control of Lex Luthor who uses him as a puppet. Perhaps he's got a pee tape of him with two alien hookers or something.
Generally, I think they should have saved the Elite for something else and maybe had an episode that showed the reprocussions of theim just flat out killing a hundred or so Children of Liberty. Supergirl finding families devastated, people angry beyond belief, and so on. More people joining.
Not that they weren't POS but that they were still human beings and that just offing them didn't help.
Generally, I think they should have saved the Elite for something else and maybe had an episode that showed the reprocussions of theim just flat out killing a hundred or so Children of Liberty. Supergirl finding families devastated, people angry beyond belief, and so on. More people joining.
Not that they weren't POS but that they were still human beings and that just offing them didn't help.
I already acknowledged that. My point is that "many people" is not "everybody." Look at real-life politics today -- we're so polarized that almost nothing that happens will shift the balance of public opinion that massively. Most people have already made up their minds which side they're on, and they'll just take whatever happens as confirmation of what they already believe. Many will refuse to believe any evidence that refutes their bias. It's only a relatively small percentage of moderates and undecideds who can really be swayed.
What are you talking about? First off, the weapon was made by the Baker government to use against aliens. Second, its firing was anything but a secret -- its beam hit the Reflecting Pool in the middle of Washington DC, barely missing the White House. That's huge, global news, and it'd be more likely to make people afraid of the weapon itself than to fear or hate Supergirl for destroying it. The only people who'd twist the facts drastically enough to paint it as some sort of excuse for hating aliens are the ones already profoundly detached from reality by their bigotry against aliens.
Some people, yes -- people who were already predisposed to xenophobia or intolerance and thus could be easily manipulated by those who benefitted politically from stirring up hate. But that analogy doesn't work, because the state of affairs in Supergirl right now is already far beyond that point. The "9/11" equivalents on Earth-38 were the alien invasions at the climaxes of seasons 1, 2, and 3. Three consecutive global cataclysms in as many years, all caused by aliens. The current status quo is the aftermath of that, the fear of aliens generated by all those invasions. The satellite incident last week is minor compared to all of that. It's not going to have a massive impact on people's perceptions -- their opinions about aliens have already been crystallized over the past three years of world events.
I do appreciate in-universe that lumping all "aliens" together is just stupid.
Martians?
1. White Martian Space Nazis
2. Awesome green people
3. White Martians oppressed by Space Nazis
There's a lot different groups of aliens in the show and no unified block of powers.
Martians?
1. White Martian Space Nazis
2. Awesome green people
3. White Martians oppressed by Space Nazis
There's a lot different groups of aliens in the show and no unified block of powers.
First walking, talking look at Cryer's Lex Luthor:
I'm ... provisionally persuaded. Not a whole lot to see here, but he doesn't immediately scream "WRONG!" to me. (See what I did there?)
I'm ... provisionally persuaded. Not a whole lot to see here, but he doesn't immediately scream "WRONG!" to me. (See what I did there?)
That was much better than I was expecting. Can't wait to see how it plays out.
Jason
Yeah, I just saw the promo as well, but there's going to be an expectation that Superman will put in an appearance in the episode based on that and I doubt he will.
