Discovery is treating them like Starfleet Intelligence under another name.
Theory for TOS Enterprise and Disco Enterprise differences
- Thread starter TrickyDickie
- Start date
I like the idea of them being one of many Federation security agencies during this time period.
Again that post was made before the revelation last week
They're treating them as a specialized "division" of it, which is exactly how Sloan described them to Bashir when they were first introduced in "Inquisition" (DS9):
BASHIR: So, why don't you tell me who you are? Who you work for?
SLOAN: I would think it's obvious. The same people you work for. The Federation. Starfleet.
BASHIR: You don't expect me to believe you're with Internal Affairs, do you?
SLOAN: No, of course not. Internal Affairs is a competent department, but limited.
BASHIR: So which department are you with?
SLOAN: Let's just say I belong to another branch of Starfleet Intelligence. Our official designation is Section 31.
BASHIR: Never heard of it.
SLOAN: We keep a low profile. Works out better that way for all concerned.
BASHIR: And what does Section 31 do, apart from kidnapping Starfleet officers?
SLOAN: We search out and identify potential dangers to the Federation.
BASHIR: And once identified?
SLOAN: We deal with them.
BASHIR: How?
SLOAN: Quietly.
BASHIR: So, if I had been a Dominion agent, what would have happened to me?
SLOAN: We wouldn't be standing here having this conversation.
BASHIR: And Starfleet sanctions what you're doing?
SLOAN: We don't submit reports or ask approval for specific operations, if that's what you mean. We're an autonomous department.
BASHIR: Authorized by whom?
SLOAN: Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet Charter.
And they were specifically called out by Tyler as "not your everyday Federation espionage" in "Point Of Light" (DSC).SLOAN: I would think it's obvious. The same people you work for. The Federation. Starfleet.
BASHIR: You don't expect me to believe you're with Internal Affairs, do you?
SLOAN: No, of course not. Internal Affairs is a competent department, but limited.
BASHIR: So which department are you with?
SLOAN: Let's just say I belong to another branch of Starfleet Intelligence. Our official designation is Section 31.
BASHIR: Never heard of it.
SLOAN: We keep a low profile. Works out better that way for all concerned.
BASHIR: And what does Section 31 do, apart from kidnapping Starfleet officers?
SLOAN: We search out and identify potential dangers to the Federation.
BASHIR: And once identified?
SLOAN: We deal with them.
BASHIR: How?
SLOAN: Quietly.
BASHIR: So, if I had been a Dominion agent, what would have happened to me?
SLOAN: We wouldn't be standing here having this conversation.
BASHIR: And Starfleet sanctions what you're doing?
SLOAN: We don't submit reports or ask approval for specific operations, if that's what you mean. We're an autonomous department.
BASHIR: Authorized by whom?
SLOAN: Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet Charter.
-MMoM
This here, they're clearly not autonomous in the 23rd.
I don't.
Whatever organizations of state security that the Federation (and Starfleet) operate, should be accountable to the government and to the people.
Starfleet Intelligence is both of these things. So is its civilian counterpart, the Federation Security Agency (ST III).
Section 31 is neither.
There's nothing saying they're not accountable in this Time Period. They answer to Starfleet Command evidently based on the last few episodes.
Unless Admiral Cornwell is a high ranking member of the organization.
They were taking orders from Admiral Cornwell, and she assigned a liaison to the Discovery.
She even reprimanded Leland for just standing by and not helping Discovery until the last moment.
Agreed on the latter; the former is yet to be determined.
I find it likely that Section 31 could order Cornwell eliminated if they feel like it. I see no reason to believe that they actually take orders from her.
Organizations like this just don't operate that way.
There's no evidence that they do that in this time period yet.
We've never seen S31 in the 23rd Century. It could be something they start doing in the next 100 years once they become autonomous..
IRL agencies have changed how they operate over decades, why can't a fictional one change over a century?Section 31 is Section 31, regardless of which century we're talking about.
Perhaps. I simply don't see any reason to be that open-minded regarding Section 31. Why do they deserve that?
Because it's an ongoing TV series?
Oh, don't mistake my meaning...if there's a story to be had, regarding the devolution of Section 31 from what DSC has shown us, to what we know of them from DS9, I'd be all for it.
I just have a hard time believing that organizations like this ever change. Once evil, always evil.
And if Starfleet Intelligence can't get something done...why does it deserve to get done?
Secrecy is corruption. The only legitimate organizations are those that everyone knows about - that way, those organizations can be held accountable for their actions.
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Eh? I’m not saying they’re going to turn good.
My theory is that they’re doing the worst stuff without anyone’s knowledge and not reporting it to their superiors, and that will come to light at some point.
Are you saying that because you genuinely don't believe she gave them an order and they followed it, or because you seem to have this impression that Admiral Cornwell can do no wrong (like your sense of denial over her participation in an attempted genocide and subsequent coup)?
Plenty of legitimate intelligence organizations in the US and around the world with government oversight have done some pretty heinous things.
That's not a defense of Section 31, and government oversight is definitely preferred, it's just a counter of the idea that government oversight guarantees above-board behavior. Sometimes governments like to look the other way while their legitimate agencies do some horrific shit in Central America, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East, and then pretend they didn't know what was going on.
Because trillions of lives may depend on it.
Let me ruin that for you.After fifty plus years of being an active Star Trek fan, I've come to the conclusion that the only thing that hasn't been debated to death, is the title of the original show.
The original show is called Enterprise which is the true Original Timeline. All "Prime" shows are fictional shows existing inside the Original Timeline, created by Zefram Cochrane after being inspired by meeting Vulcans and some "astronauts on some kind of star trek".
