Oops, I meant that a 10 foot reduction in radius, not diameter, so, I actually have a 20 foot reduction in diameter or ~20% reduction...so things fit with a little room to spare in the 947. The set was 51+ feet in radius.
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Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)
- Thread starter Henoch
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Bits and pieces in secondary hull on center decks 18-19; widest part of Casimiro 947' hull, or 340' secondary hull as shown. Grey circles are the vertical turbolift shafts (placement only concept and not my final location). DTD is centered on big red outlined yellow spot at bottom of hull, and room for the full 90' pipe structure. Round dangerous equipment behind deflector dish; I envision a fusion reactor to power the secondary hull, especially the deflector dish when main power is off-line. Reactor shape is spherical/donut with plumbing running forward: (https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/renewable-energy-ecology/us-fusion-reactor/)
I just noticed that the fusion machine looks like the Phase II engine room vertical shaft with several big balls
http://cdn1.sciencefiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/star-trek-phase-ii-02-e1401308210108.jpg
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I'm curious about the source for the 51" measure. My own (imprecise) measurements of set drawings always gave me an even larger estimated radial distance (~58'), but what I'm going from here for the 55'7" number is Cary Brown's presentation of the briefing room plans in his own take on the Enterprise some years back. (He decided to work with a 1067' ship, which I thought was unusual, but I had no dispute with his internal measurements.) If those were inaccurate, it's news to me.
That said, thanks for the clarification about radius vs. diameter; had I realized that was what you meant I wouldn't have thought there was any problem. And I rather like the "bits and pieces" sketch of decks 18-19... although in my own imagination I'd make room for a full circle there, and push the engine room(s) aft a bit. (IMHO the DTD and anything else dangerous in or under there could be ejected from the T-shaped cutout instead of the circular one?)
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Assumptions: Casimiro hull, non-FP pipes, set sizes (with some minor adjustments). You could be right about the set diameter, but in any event, I need 40 feet radius to make it fit. I worry that if I push the engine room aft, the corridor diameter needs to get smaller, still, and I run out of room for a 90 foot pipe length, but that measurement may be subjective, too. I got 90' from an old blssdwlf thread, so, maybe there is a newer estimate on the non-FP pipe length? <hint, hint>
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I think you can adjust the length as needed (with the minimum being the actual size) since the nature of the pipes can be interpreted in different ways. I estimated based on camera focal length and length of the parallel structures the pipes connect to. But if those parallel structures tapered, then it would affect the length.
I actually thought they were two different locations. H Deck, Weapons Locker was just a locker with weapons on deck H in the primary hull and the Armoury as shown in DOTD was a room with weapons and in the engineering hull (because Scotty climbed up to Engineering after going to the Armoury). If H Deck was in the engineering hull, are you thinking A Deck is the top the engineering hull and there are two A Decks?
I'm confused; how did we get to "A deck" from H and B decks? "A deck" has no reference in TOS. As I previously said, H and B deck labels makes no naval sense, so, it must be unique slang in starships. Members on this site speculate that H deck and the weapons locker (from COTK) could be the hangar deck (probably a good guess). Regardless, my base assumption is that the main engine room with full pipes is in the secondary hull. If so, then one of the armories/weapon lockers is down there too, probably to service the shuttlecraft (phasers are stocked onboard per The Galileo Seven, but no Claymores - Sorry Scotty).
We get "A deck" because of the alphabet. If there is a "B" and an "H" deck there follows the rest of the alphabet would be used for the other decks. It's the same thing about Deck One. There is no reference in TOS to it yet we can reasonably assume one must exist and that it's either the topmost or the bottom-most deck (depending on which way you prefer numbering).
The TOS Movies even went and lettered the decks (Bridge being A deck) and a C deck is mentioned in both TWOK and TSFS with Spock's quarters residing on C Deck. I'm all for referencing naval terminology but it seems pretty obvious that B and H are not the first letters of "Hanger" and "B"-whatever word.
As far as the armoury room goes, yes, I agree that it is in the engineering hull. But there also appears to be a weapons locker in the primary hull too.
The circular layout looks like a fairly natural necessity of design, which is great! I might be tempted to continue the circular design on the starboard side too, to continue the notion that the layout "has" to be built that way
Bits and pieces in secondary hull on center decks 18-19; widest part of Casimiro 947' hull, or 340' secondary hull as shown. Grey circles are the vertical turbolift shafts (placement only concept and not my final location). DTD is centered on big red outlined yellow spot at bottom of hull, and room for the full 90' pipe structure. Round dangerous equipment behind deflector dish; I envision a fusion reactor to power the secondary hull, especially the deflector dish when main power is off-line. Reactor shape is spherical/donut with plumbing running forward: (https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/renewable-energy-ecology/us-fusion-reactor/)
I just noticed that the fusion machine looks like the Phase II engine room vertical shaft with several big ballstwo big balls. (Yes, it's male.)It could be part of the vertical shaft running to the saucer/impulse engine area. Hmm.
http://cdn1.sciencefiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/star-trek-phase-ii-02-e1401308210108.jpg
I wondered if you'd based your dimensions on CLB's work - his project was excellent, but I think he made a slight calculation error early on.
Where he got his version of the original setplans from I don't know, but I think it had been altered at some point, probably by someone trying to helpfully fill in the missing info! This is what CLB's blueprint looked like:
And this is what most copies of the blueprints look like:
It's clear that someone took a best guess at joining the dots and mistook 53'4" for 55'7"
I can say that with confidence because 55'7" is at odds with every other visible measure, including the most obvious and easily readable one:
By "radial beam" it means the central beam curving through the Briefing Room
This is what should have been what CLB calls his "stake in the sand" as it matches up with the 4'0" doors, the 7'6" distance from the centreline to the wall and a host of others
It also puts the corridors at 8' wide and the radius to the outer wall at 51'
Try it out yourself!
correct; except that the wall in question is that of the briefing room, which has a thickness of around 2.25 feet (give or take an inch) to the edge of the corridor radius.
53'3" less 2'3" is ... 51'
Probably want to edit this then.
I thought maybe the system worked like this: 3F meant Deck 3, "Forward" section, Cabin 127. 3C would be would be deck 3, center section, cabin 46.
It was said to be 120 feet with forced-perspective. Didn't this fit so that the structure ended at the nacelle pylons?
So, the radius of the inner wall is 51-8=43 ft. Curving it to 40 ft. wouldn't be a noticeable change on film using fish lens, etc.
US Naval Compartment Systems on a long, skinny ship are Deck ("main" deck is #1 then count down; levels above are different looking and they count up from main deck) - Frame (from bow) - Side Position (odd=starboard/even=port from centerline) - Special Function Letter (need a list; first letter may or may not convey meaning). That's if they even used a 20th century Naval System on a 23rd century Space Ship. Your thoughts are just as valid. It could be like a modern cruise ship. You only need a map on the wall to find the bar.
The 90 ft. length was from blssdwlf analysis comparing set photos to his computer model, so, I feel he is in the ball park after seeing it with my own eyes. https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-enterprise-wip.119751/page-2#post-4032586 I know he did work on changing the camera lens from 28mm to 24mm, and putting a slight taper in the unit to fit through the undercut of the saucer, but he didn't post a new length. I was hoping the lens change would shorten the pipe length estimate and not lengthen it. Then the non-FP work got abandoned in favor for a FP pipe unit. Sad day for us full pipers.
Do you remember where your reference for the 120 ft. length originates? Since I locate the engine room fairly far forward, I might have room for more length, but 30 more feet takes out the shuttle garage and any corridors/rooms. Maybe, the engine room could be raised up 2 or 3 decks feeding the pipes between the nacelle pylons. What would we do with all that room under the engineering deck? A shuttlebay that continues straight through the center of the ship into a three story cargo bay? Nah, who'd believe that?
You mean change 53'4" to 53'3"? I did say give or take an inch, doesn't that count?
TBH, I only favoured 4 over 3 because 4 is more similar to 7 in shape and CLB (or whoever) could have mistaken one for the other. Mistaking a 3 for a 7? It's possible too I suppose, but the important takeaway is that 64'9" length needs to be the key length (and it works)
When I gave my 120' figure I didn't have Blssdwlf's data to hand at the time (his thread is very long!). So, I chose an approximate camera point on the set plan at the back of the engine room and drew lines to expand the entire FP unit and flat behind it.
The length of the FP unit itself came out between 86' and 93' (again based solely on that arbitrary viewing point).
When I included the very rear wall (behind the pipes) and scaled out too then it would be around 120' away from the viewing point, but since that just appears as a flatly lit coloured panel with nothing to scale it I think you can safely ignore that marker, and just go with the 90' length.
Apologies for any confusion caused by this - I did not properly explain myself when I gave the figure.
TLDR: I would absolutely defer to Blssdwlf's measurements on this matter, since he actually modelled the FP unit in "real length" to visually match the episodes!
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Fair enough. My original post was meant to show that the blueprints provided a way of obtaining the BR wall distance without trying to decipher an unreadable measurement label. (I guess I should articulated thatYou mean change 53'4" to 53'3"? I did say give or take an inch, doesn't that count?
TBH, I only favoured 4 over 3 because 4 is more similar to 7 in shape and CLB (or whoever) could have mistaken one for the other. Mistaking a 3 for a 7? It's possible too I suppose, but the important takeaway is that 64'9" length needs to be the key length (and it works)
)--------------------------------------------------
On the question of the length of the pipe cathedral, David Shaw came up with 115'.
Post 141 of this rabbit-hole thread (yes, I have bookmarked
):https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/another-fan-attempt-at-tos-deck-plans.45261/page-8
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It strongly comes down to the accuracy of the sketch of the FP footprint on the set plans and the location of your "camera". Use of actual photos also has its problems, too. An as-built prop blueprint would be best if it exists. The recreated sets in NY state I heard are only half the depth, so, no good, unless they also have original blueprints. So, ~105 feet +/-15 feet.
Oh well, if you're going to try and make things EASY...Fair enough. My original post was meant to show that the blueprints provided a way of obtaining the BR wall distance without trying to decipher an unreadable measurement label. (I guess I should articulated that
I'm not sure his scale is quite right. Using the corridor at the bottom of the picture (which is known to be 8' wide) the FP length clocks in at 57' (approximately). If Shaw's scale bar up the side were true, the corridors would be over 13 feet wide!On the question of the length of the pipe cathedral, David Shaw came up with 115'.
Post 141 of this rabbit-hole thread (yes, I have bookmarked
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/another-fan-attempt-at-tos-deck-plans.45261/page-8
It is interesting how the expanded FP length get shorter the closer you get the camera to it (of course, the fakery of the optical illusion also gets also more and more obvious). I think the camera viewpoint was originally intended to be further away, as per it's first filmed appearance in The Naked Time http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd455.jpg
