Eradicating Earth

[TribbleFeeder]

In the episode “Sacrifice of Angels” Gul Dukat and Weyoun are having a discussion about the next steps for the Dominion. Weyoun suggests that Earth would likely be the birthplace of a resistance effort against them and it should be eradicated.

Dukat disagrees, but it kind of seems like there are other reasons why he disagrees, aside from what he says, like an underlying reason. Thoughts?

This is the exchange:

WEYOUN: If you ask me, the key to holding the Federation is Earth. If there's going to be an organized resistance against us, its birthplace will be there.
DUKAT: You could be right.
WEYOUN: Then our first step is to eradicate its population. It's the only way.
DUKAT: You can't do that.
WEYOUN: Why not?
DUKAT: Because! A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness.
WEYOUN: Then you kill them?
DUKAT: Only if it's necessary.
WEYOUN: I had no idea.

 

[Timo]

Well, Dukat lives in a world where everybody, including his own feeble Cardassian Union, has weapons capable of planeticide at their fingertips. This world has somehow learned how to wage war without planeticide, though. It must be a precarious balance, one that Dukat would be hesitant to put to test.

Weyoun lives in a different reality: if the Dominion decides to wipe out a Gamma planet, who is to retaliate, and against whom? The Dominion has no capital to strike against. All its planets are mere hostages to the invisible leadership. So eradication of populations is definitely in the Dominion field manuals, although they often go for far nastier things such as the sustained genocide of "Quickening".

Of course, Dukat would have developed a veritable manual of his own for rationalizations on why he can't eradicate populations. "Making them bow to my greatness" is a great excuse even if the real reason is "Otherwise the Breen or the Klingons would no longer have a reason to hold back and then we'd all die".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kilana2]

Dukat is a megalomanica who wants to be admired by the people he conquered. Nobody can admire him when the population is killed off. He was always convinced that the Bajorans didn't appreciate is good intentions and their need of being led by the Cardassians. Weyoun fails to see that. Dukat is egomaniac, Weyoun is the Dominion's puppet.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

From Dukat's perspective, if he kills someone, he can never defeat them. It's the same reason he didn't kill Sisko in Waltz. He doesn't want to kill Sisko, he wants to utterly and completely destroy everything he loves while he watches, helplessly.

From Weyoun's perspective, victory is simple. The Dominion dominates the AQ and brings order to the solids. And from his experience, the best way to get people to stop resisting is a grand display of the consequences of resisting. And what better grand display than the complete destruction of the Federation's central planet?

That interchange also proves how stupid Bashir's analysis with the Jack pack is. He anticipated a resistance on Earth in a couple centuries, but was too dumb to anticipate the Dominion anticipating the same thing.

 

[Crazyewok]

Ego.

He wants to be a conqueror not a annilator.

 

[TribbleFeeder]

I was secretly hoping there was a soft spot in there for humans.

 

[Crazyewok]

I was secretly hoping there was a soft spot in there for humans.

He probably does. I bet he has posters of Hitler and Stalin in his quarters and gets off on Holocaust documentary's.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I don't find it surprising at all. First, the focus of Dukat's genocidal rage is one Bajorans, not humans. Second, like all people espousing to be Herrenvolk, they want to be masters, not just owners. Cardassians didn't want to work Bajor, so they enslaved the Bajorans. I don't think they would want to work Earth, but would prefer to enslave humans.

 

[STEPhon IT]

In the episode “Sacrifice of Angels” Gul Dukat and Weyoun are having a discussion about the next steps for the Dominion. Weyoun suggests that Earth would likely be the birthplace of a resistance effort against them and it should be eradicated.

Dukat disagrees, but it kind of seems like there are other reasons why he disagrees, aside from what he says, like an underlying reason. Thoughts?

This is the exchange:

This is not the Gul Dukat who had a better representation in the 1st 3 seasons of the show; the Dukat I remember would've allowed Weyoun to fall into that hornets nest and have a hidden agenda to over throw the Dominion. It's a shame Dukat became a 2 dimensional thinker like the rest of the villains in Star Trek, like Weyoun and the Dominion they're acting as if Earth is just an hour away and going there for an invasion would lead them to their doom because it's too far. The logical choice would be to blockage the Denorius belt and Cardassia and prevent the federation from entering Bajoran Space; terminate that ridiculous agreement with Bajor and start organizing collaborators to work with the Cardassians... you know, like how Cardassians do things; this race - spearheaded by Gul Dukat - put a whole new cleverness to Stockholm syndrome. What a shame the writers had so much contempt on a great character like Dukat and Cardassians.

As to your question, that new version of Dukat was talking drivel because both ideas are equally stupid.

 

[Nyotarules]

There is meant to be a Human Diaspora numbering in the millions (if not billions) in this time period, Weyoun is proving he does not know how the human psyche works.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

This is not the Gul Dukat who had a better representation in the 1st 3 seasons of the show; the Dukat I remember would've allowed Weyoun to fall into that hornets nest and have a hidden agenda to over throw the Dominion. It's a shame Dukat became a 2 dimensional thinker like the rest of the villains in Star Trek, like Weyoun and the Dominion they're acting as if Earth is just an hour away and going there for an invasion would lead them to their doom because it's too far. The logical choice would be to blockage the Denorius belt and Cardassia and prevent the federation from entering Bajoran Space; terminate that ridiculous agreement with Bajor and start organizing collaborators to work with the Cardassians... you know, like how Cardassians do things; this race - spearheaded by Gul Dukat - put a whole new cleverness to Stockholm syndrome. What a shame the writers had so much contempt on a great character like Dukat and Cardassians.

As to your question, that new version of Dukat was talking drivel because both ideas are equally stupid.

The man who said, in the second season, " There are those who believe I should have killed every last Bajoran while I had the chance. Oh well, it's too late for that, I'm afraid," certainly is capable of genocide. Perhaps he has more dimensions than that, but at least one is strong and ever present.

 

[Armus]

That exchange just shows how ruthless the Dominion are in war compared to Cardassians like Dukat, who craves vainglory. From Dukat's perspective, there's more glory to rule the conquered and have them submit to his sovereignty, rather than to destroy them completely, kind of like God Himself.

"For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

 

[marlboro]

I was secretly hoping there was a soft spot in there for humans.

No doubt that he would tell himself that he was being merciful. I mean, he did save them from destruction from the Dominion, after all. They owe him. A little veneration/glorification is the least they can do for their saviour, right? Dukat is in full 1984 mode here. It isn't enough to submit to Big Brother - you have to love him. What's the point of being God if you dont have any worshippers?

Dukat is all about control and self gratification. A lot of people think the character went off the rails when he became a Bajoran and got mixed up with the Pah-wraiths, but I disagree. Dukat only serves his own base desires, but he hides this fact by claiming he does what he does for nobler reasons; Cardassian nationalism, patriotism, or rationalizing his subjugation of Bajor as if they were wayward children in need of a caretaker, and so on.

His becoming Anjohl Tennan and his pact with the Pah-wraiths is the epitome of who he truly is, I think.
All of his boasts about innate Cardassian superiority are forgotten. Likewise, all of his claims that the faith of the Bajorans is just a bunch of primitive superstitious nonsense. His professed love for his people, gone. His duty to Cardassia, cast aside. On the surface he seems to be a totally different character than the one we've watched for 7 years. And, on the surface, he is. But deep down, he hasn't changed a bit. Time and again, we see him switch loyalties in a bid for personal power. He always has convenient rationalizations for doing so, of course. Everything he does (politically, militarily, and personally) is about gaining power and dominance.

The sole exception? Tora Ziyal.

 

[Delta Vega]

I like Dukat
He gets a lot of bad shit on here
He's right up there with Nomad for me as a loveable rogue
Cardassians are a great bunch of lads

 

[kkt]

Yes, letting Ziyal live was quite out of character. All he had to do was not mention her to Kira at all, and kill her when they were on their way back to Cardassia from DS9.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I like Dukat
He gets a lot of bad shit on here
He's right up there with Nomad for me as a loveable rogue
Cardassians are a great bunch of lads

Really?

He's a genocidal sociopath, who adopts a lovable rogue persona because he thinks it will get him accolades.

 

[Delta Vega]

Really?

He's a genocidal sociopath, who adopts a lovable rogue persona because he thinks it will get him accolades.

Yep,
That's why I like him
Some goodies are just so lame, Dukat is a great baddie

 

[Timo]

He's sort of the ideal Cardassian overlord, the daydream of all those dutiful Guls who merely oppress and kill but wish they had the guts to do more - the sort of character Aamin Marritza was visualizing when pretending to be Gul Darhe'el, because even the real Butcher of Gallitep fell short of Marritza's standards for absolute evil. Dukat isn't just the Cardassian color of evil, he's evil by Cardassian standards (the philandering thing with at least two Bajoran women and all)!

Which IMHO adds the third dimension to the character without going the boring old route of making him secretly sympathetic. He's a villain who's secretly also a monster!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[UnknownSample]

I agree with Marlboro and Timo. At this point there began to be remarkable development of Dukat's character. There really are people like this.

It's made just so clear in these scenes (where there are no "good guys" there to put up a face for) how pathetically insecure Dukat's real motivations are. I'm not saying it's pathetic to be insecure; we all have some of that. His brand of it though... he needs needs NEEDS the respect of everyone around him, and he caves in, inside, if he doesn't get it. He craves power so as to rule people inside and out, and make them love/worship/fear (all at the same time) him. He's always worrying what others think. He can murder, and be torn up inside over whether the victim was impressed with him and his greatness and power, as he pulled the trigger.

He doesn't want control of space or armies or governments. He wants to achieve control over how he's regarded by other people. It's always been a very popular delusion that dominating someone will lead to power over what they think and feel. The Spanish Inquisition, say... Dukat is out to make the universe be enthralled with him. That's the big objective. Through force. Break down a people through brutality, and their will to resist will be gone, even in their own minds. They'll think what you want them to.

Not quite true, but it can work somewhat. Never enough for Dukat. The Bajorans were supposed to be broken and remade as Dukat's personal fan club. So THEY failed and should die.

I'm sorry that this disqualifies him from just being a cool tough badass, but that's badass for you. They're cripples inside.

The humor in those scenes with Weyoun is that Weyoun is silently, invisibly laughing at Dukat, incredulously.

 

[Leviathan]

There really are people like this.

Yes. There are. They have "good intentions" and a lot of wreckage to their credit.

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