I think this this is the first time we’ve ever seen a two-story bridge in a Fed starship. Intriguing.
Spoilers DSC Starships and Technology - Season Two Thread
- Thread starter Mark_Nguyen
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I got the sense that they controlled more ship functions from that single location, maybe because more spying equipment that needed to be manned?
Variable-geometry warp nacelles and a cloaking device on a Federation ship in 2257. Okay.
Clearly a leftover from the temporal cold war, then. 
Mark
Mark
There have been folding nacelle pylons since Cochrane's first Warp 1 flight. Neither that nor the S31 ship here locked into position as quickly as Voyager nor immediately warped once in place, suggesting a warm-up period.
Cloaks are a mess timeline-wise. NX-01 knew cloaking was possible from the Suliban, despite Spock thinking it was only a theory in Balance of Terror. And now the Klingons had it on the Ship of the Dead (presumably where S31 salvaged it). You could make the case that TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY are all rippled slightly by the Borg Sphere going back in First Contact, plus the Temporal Cold War, so that the TOS eps dealing with Romulan cloaks are altered.
Cloaks are a mess timeline-wise. NX-01 knew cloaking was possible from the Suliban, despite Spock thinking it was only a theory in Balance of Terror. And now the Klingons had it on the Ship of the Dead (presumably where S31 salvaged it). You could make the case that TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY are all rippled slightly by the Borg Sphere going back in First Contact, plus the Temporal Cold War, so that the TOS eps dealing with Romulan cloaks are altered.
I still have a massive issue with Spock’s discussion as bending light as theoretical.
Just... These are cultures that have learned to not only manipulate gravity but utilize the fabric of space time to move their ships effortlessly and conduct nearly-instantaneous communication across light years. The only thing theoretical about cloaking technology is how they would accomplish it.
My thoughts on cloaks appearing throughout the series are similar. There have to bevarious types of cloaking and stealth technology with varying degrees of stealth—invisibility in the visual spectrum, invisible to sensors, etc. Spock must have been referring to a novel type that Starfleet isn’t familiar with. That or we have to just take it with a grain of salt.
On another topic:
DISCO seems to be deliberately vague about the layout of the ship and, in a way, that’s sort of refreshing. It recalls an interview with Doug Drexler some time ago where he notes that they had no ideas what scripts would call for. His solution was adding hatches, lots of hatches.
The inner tech geek in me gets mildly annoyed when the ship layout is so seemingly haphazard but I can see the real-world rationale for it.
The cloaking on that S31 ship looked liked a modified form of active camoflage where the paint adjusts itself to reflect what's on the other side or uses mirrors to show off a false surface.
It wasn't the Klingon/Romulan Style cloak that we're used to.
It wasn't the Klingon/Romulan Style cloak that we're used to.
Starfleet/S31 might have access to a lot of different invisibility devices:
- T'Kumva's cloak. They do business with the Klingons, after all.
- The old Romulan camouflage from ENT.
- Any of the invisibility devices of random aliens from ENT
- Any of the invisibility devices of random aliens from TOS; S31 just didn't tell Kirk they met these guys
- Some in-house stuff developed from common UFP holoprojections
- Some in-house stealth stuff having absolutely nothing to do with holograms or Klingon ro Romulan cloaks
The thing is, they would need those to interact with the Klingon Empire the way they do. And there's no particular reason why they couldn't have this stuff. It's out there for the taking, and we know Starfleet conducts raids for high tech, either with (TOS "Enterprise Incident") or without (DSC "Into the Forest") higher-level preplanning. If they do that in the 2260s, they probably were doing it in the 2250 and 2240s and 2230s already.
So far, the S31 ship doesn't impress me as a temple of high tech. It's just yer basic covert ops stuff, possibly their equivalent of an old C-123 fitted with FLIR and Fulton STAR and painted black. But this perception may change in the near future.
Timo Saloniemi
- T'Kumva's cloak. They do business with the Klingons, after all.
- The old Romulan camouflage from ENT.
- Any of the invisibility devices of random aliens from ENT
- Any of the invisibility devices of random aliens from TOS; S31 just didn't tell Kirk they met these guys
- Some in-house stuff developed from common UFP holoprojections
- Some in-house stealth stuff having absolutely nothing to do with holograms or Klingon ro Romulan cloaks
The thing is, they would need those to interact with the Klingon Empire the way they do. And there's no particular reason why they couldn't have this stuff. It's out there for the taking, and we know Starfleet conducts raids for high tech, either with (TOS "Enterprise Incident") or without (DSC "Into the Forest") higher-level preplanning. If they do that in the 2260s, they probably were doing it in the 2250 and 2240s and 2230s already.
So far, the S31 ship doesn't impress me as a temple of high tech. It's just yer basic covert ops stuff, possibly their equivalent of an old C-123 fitted with FLIR and Fulton STAR and painted black. But this perception may change in the near future.
Timo Saloniemi
Unless ENT went back on the "never saw a Romulan on screen or recovered a body" stuff from Balance of Terror, I doubt they ever found a Romulan ship intact enough from the Earth/Romulan War to recover the ENT-era camo tech. More likely modified Suliban stuff, assuming Timefleet doesn't pop in and nick it when S31 have their backs turned.
Do future time agents ever work with S31 operatives?
Or then they did, and it's just seeeeeecret. Along with whatever bodies they found within, that is.
Some sort of a Men In Black (Badges?) intervention would indeed be needed to explain how Kirk and Spock can remain ignorant of the concept of invisible enemies in "Balance of Terror". I mean, they themselves have been bounced by invisible opponents at least once already - the Thasian vessel in "Charlie X" appeared out of nowhere, too.
But invisibility certainly comes in grades, and only Spock's categorical denial of such rubs me the wrong way. The "Balance of Terror" cloak is qualitatively different from the Romulan holofakery of old, or from later TOS movie or TNG style cloaks, but identical to the Klingon system of the late 2250s, in allowing for tracking but hampering targeting and fatally delaying initial spotting. Yet all fool the Mk 1 Eyeball, and Spock shouldn't pretend otherwise. Unless he is logically motivated to lie about it?
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps Spock discounts the Thasian as the Federation equivalent of "science so advanced it might as well be magic". I mean they gave Charlie powers beyond Federation science, so its not exactly unreasonable for Spock to just discount that, since the Romulans should still be at Federation technology levels (roughly).
Charlie was actively blocking messages being directed to the Enterprise (Uhura's instruments register them but she can't hear anything due to Charlie's interference.) When Charlie gets overwhelmed (or alternatively when the Thasians get close enough to the Enterprise to stop Charlie) the Thasian ship appears to sensors. This has less to do with invisibility and more with Charlie's and the Thasian's powers.
Kirk and Spock's amazement in the next episode of the Romulan's cloaking device is still valid. In their TOS universe, they had not seen another starship with a practical cloaking device up to that point.
Works for me in that special case. Trying to suggest that invisibility is unseen in general doesn't work, though. The spinoffs now merely put into pretty pictures what always must have been true anyway: that everybody and their cousin Gaila can access invisibility technology which is commonplace in a universe as rich in technology and detail as Trek's.
Really, what subject matter in Trek would "We know this is possible because our betters do it already, even though we still have to work out a detail or two" not cover? Mankind runs into Q in the late 24th century and learns that everything is possible, given enough effort. But others must have met Q-like creatures earlier on, and the story would have spread; nothing ought to be "impossible by reputation" or "purely theoretical" in the Trek universe.
Timo Saloniemi
Really, what subject matter in Trek would "We know this is possible because our betters do it already, even though we still have to work out a detail or two" not cover? Mankind runs into Q in the late 24th century and learns that everything is possible, given enough effort. But others must have met Q-like creatures earlier on, and the story would have spread; nothing ought to be "impossible by reputation" or "purely theoretical" in the Trek universe.
Timo Saloniemi
Kirk and Spock could not be aware of the Klingon cloaks of the '50s?
We don't know why the nacelles can move. It could be for a completely different reason than the Intrepid's. I'm thinking it's for stealth reasons, the ship has a lower profile when they're folded.
And that didn't seem to be a standard Trek style cloak, seemed more like they were changing how the hull panels looked, some sort of camouflage, it wasn't the traditional light/space bending Klingon/Romulan cloak.
Reminded me of the Marvel movie's Helicarrier, or Bond's car in 'Die Another Day'.
They also had those in Season 1.
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But the S31 ship unfolds everything when they ARRIVE in orbit. Presumably they de-whatever as well, if they were to transport the baby Klingon to the doorstep (presumably adding in a wicker basket while they were at it). Maybe the ship went all fetal-position to achieve orbit away from prying eyes, and went to standard mode to beam the babe down? We don't specifically know if they folded back up to go to warp or not.
Mark
Mark
Ah, good point.
Isn't it standard to drop Shields and or cloak while using a transporter?
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