Link Between Discovery and a Contentious Element of the Kelvin films

[Kane_Steel]

What's done in comics isn't canon. And the fact that someone chose that medium to "explain" things shows that it wasn't a huge worry on their minds to begin with.

Canon is debatable, since the rules of the Kelvinverse are it's own thing. And the Kelvinverse is now dead, so it ultimately doesn't matter anymore.

While there was a gap, that had nothing to do with STD. The reason why the Kelvin movies are dead is because Paramount sucked at advertising them.

Most of the Kelvin-verse trailers were great. They only had one bad one, and it was countered with better ones when the marketing got heavier. STiD was advertised well. It's numbers show that a lot of people saw it. They just chose not to return for any future installments.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Most of the Kelvin-verse trailers were great. They only had one bad one, and it was countered with better ones when the marketing got heavier. STiD was advertised well. It's numbers show that a lot of people saw it. They just chose not to return for any future installments.

the advertising for Beyond started a week or so before the film came out. Most of my friends - who are fans of Star Trek and the Kelvinverse - didn't even know a third movie was produced a week after the premiere of Beyond

 

[Dukhat]

Canon is debatable, since the rules of the Kelvinverse are it's own thing. And the Kelvinverse is now dead, so it ultimately doesn't matter anymore.

At the time the movies were being made, canon was what was on screen only.

Most of the Kelvin-verse trailers were great. They only had one bad one, and it was countered with better ones when the marketing got heavier. STiD was advertised well. It's numbers show that a lot of people saw it. They just chose not to return for any future installments.

Agreed that the trailers were great. But Paramount's advertising still sucked. They had minimal merchandise tie-ins, and advertising for Beyond was almost nonexistent.

 

[F. King Daniel]

One of my favorite aspects of Discovery season one is Ash Tyler's arc and the reveal that he is, in fact, a surgically altered Klingon. My first instinct as a fan was to connect the dots between Voq's procedure, the House of Mo'Kai, and Arne Darvin in Trouble With Tribbles, who was later revealed to be a surgically altered Klingon.

However, also as a fan, my mind wandered to one of the more frustrating aspects of Trek continuity, which is the [in my opinion] unfortunate casting of Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan in the Kelvin timeline. Not only did changing Khan's race and overall appearance/identity seem like a slap in the face to the fans, it also simply didn't make sense!

But it seems to reason that, if the Federation was widely aware of the choH'a' procedure, the ne'er-do-wells in that universe's Section 31 could replicate the process on Khan. Sure, this is a different universe where, presumably, the events of Discovery did not happen, but the fact that this process was shown at all leads me to believe that Khan went through a similar procedure.

Having seen Into Darkness since watching Discovery's first season, it does seem to make it a little more bearable to put up with the drastic changes to Khan. I understand some comics have explained this as well, but I haven't read all of those yet.

Did anyone else make the (indirect) connection between the choH'a' and Khan from Into Darkness?

As far as I'm concerned, the Khan of the Kelvin universe is a white British guy. It's the simplest and best explanation.

 

[Kane_Steel]

Agreed that the trailers were great. But Paramount's advertising still sucked. They had minimal merchandise tie-ins, and advertising for Beyond was almost nonexistent.

That's because the merchandise for ST 2009 didn't sell. There were definitely cost-cutting measures in place because the films didn't do what they hoped financially. The ROI was quite poor.

By the time Beyond came out, more merchandising and advertising wouldn't have saved it from flopping theatrically. Audience interest died out for the franchise years prior.

 

[Mudd]

Canon is debatable, since the rules of the Kelvinverse are it's own thing.

If it's on screen, it's canon. No debate. If it contradicts itself, it just contradicts itself. If ot's bad or doesn't make sense...it's still canon.

 

[LizStargaryen]

Nothing to add about Khan theories... I just figured they wanted Benedict in STID and Idris in Beyond. Just wished they'd used both better. Nero is the only Kelvin movie supervillain I found halfway convincing.

That's because the merchandise for ST 2009 didn't sell. There were definitely cost-cutting measures in place because the films didn't do what they hoped financially. The ROI was quite poor.

By the time Beyond came out, more merchandising and advertising wouldn't have saved it from flopping theatrically. Audience interest died out for the franchise years prior.

I thought that ROI was only an issue for Beyond? '09 and STID did very well at the box office.

I liked the Kelvinverse. Not as much as the Prime timeline, but I did see all the movies and own the vast majority of the comics. Scratched my itch OK after the demise of ENT.

And Beyond's marketing was beyond pathetic.

 

[Nerys Myk]

As far as I'm concerned, the Khan of the Kelvin universe is a white British guy. It's the simplest and best explanation.

So that means TOS Khan was a Spanish Mexican.

 

[DaveyNY]

OK, I couldn't help myself...
I HAD to see what Kelvin Khan model pics would have looked like...

He certainly could have had a much nicer second career.

 

[F. King Daniel]

So that means TOS Khan was a Spanish Mexican.

He was an Indian Sikh as imagined by people with no knowledge of Indians or Sikh.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He was an Indian Sikh as imagined by people with no knowledge of Indians or Sikh.

An Indian Sikh with a Spanish accent and features.

 

[Mudd]

He was an Indian Sikh as imagined by people with no knowledge of Indians or Sikh.

Fair, as Star Trek is the future as imagined by some middle-aged white guys living in Southern California half a century ago.

You know, at least they'd traveled, and in addition had some experience of what war and combat are. Still...

 

[Daddy Todd]

You should check with Lindsey Buckingham...

Yeah, but Buckingham totally deserved to be slapped...

 

[Manchester]

One of my favorite aspects of Discovery season one is Ash Tyler's arc and the reveal that he is, in fact, a surgically altered Klingon. My first instinct as a fan was to connect the dots between Voq's procedure, the House of Mo'Kai, and Arne Darvin in Trouble With Tribbles, who was later revealed to be a surgically altered Klingon.

However, also as a fan, my mind wandered to one of the more frustrating aspects of Trek continuity, which is the [in my opinion] unfortunate casting of Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan in the Kelvin timeline. Not only did changing Khan's race and overall appearance/identity seem like a slap in the face to the fans, it also simply didn't make sense!

But it seems to reason that, if the Federation was widely aware of the choH'a' procedure, the ne'er-do-wells in that universe's Section 31 could replicate the process on Khan. Sure, this is a different universe where, presumably, the events of Discovery did not happen, but the fact that this process was shown at all leads me to believe that Khan went through a similar procedure.

Having seen Into Darkness since watching Discovery's first season, it does seem to make it a little more bearable to put up with the drastic changes to Khan. I understand some comics have explained this as well, but I haven't read all of those yet.

Did anyone else make the (indirect) connection between the choH'a' and Khan from Into Darkness?

Welcome to the board. And no I didn’t make the connection because it didn’t matter all that much. The Kelvin Timeline is a completely different universe.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Kelvin Timeline is a completely different universe.

That's just Simon Pegg's theory, nothing more.

 

[Mudd]

so much so that they had to address his race-change in the comics.

No one "had to do" anything. The people writing the comics clearly had a bug up their butts about it, though.

 

[Tuskin38]

No one "had to do" anything. The people writing the comics clearly had a bug up their butts about it, though.

Yeah, it was all on them, the writers from the movie didn't tell them to.

 

[F. King Daniel]

That's just Simon Pegg's theory, nothing more.

And then being the same universe, splitting in 2233 and sharing the same past is Bob Orci's theory and nothing more.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

The Kelvin timeline is clearly a universe where everyone is a hotter, hunkier version of themselves. Chances are everyone on the trekbbs is hotter and hunkier in the kelvinverse trekbbs

 

[Philip Guyott]

But it seems to reason that, if the Federation was widely aware of the choH'a' procedure, the ne'er-do-wells in that universe's Section 31 could replicate the process on Khan. Sure, this is a different universe where, presumably, the events of Discovery did not happen, but the fact that this process was shown at all leads me to believe that Khan went through a similar procedure.

I have never been bothered about the recasting of Khan as I have enjoyed the performances of all three actors. However ever since 'into darkness" came out it has been part of my head canon that Section 31 had surgically altered the way he looked, otherwise it would be a bit like seeing Hitler walking around the streets of London today. Even if people would not believe it is actually him, he's still going to draw attention.