Who is the better captain Picard or Jellico

[Farscape One]

Regarding Jellico's orders, the one that never made sense to me was transferring 1/3 of the engineering people to security.

Security is needed to make the ship secure... but you don't have a ship TO secure if there aren't enough engineers to keep it going.

That was one thing that I felt was a stupid order.

 

[Gabriel]

Regarding Jellico's orders, the one that never made sense to me was transferring 1/3 of the engineering people to security.

Security is needed to make the ship secure... but you don't have a ship TO secure if there aren't enough engineers to keep it going.

That was one thing that I felt was a stupid order.

You don’t need all the engineers all The time. Also you need the extra security if you get bordered. It was only 1/3. The. Enterprise has a crew of over 1,000 I think they will be fine on 2/3 engineers considering that most just have to wait for damage since I don’t think engineering is being big enough for them all at once like during red alert. And plus the cre is cross trained so I’m sure when the battle is over jellico would let the engineers that were in security lend a hand in engineering. But the cardies would probably send pretty big bordering party’s and considering that the normal enterprise security complement couldn’t stop Frengi I’m thinking that he Enterprise doesn’t have a lot of security.

 

[JesterFace]

Enterprise has a crew of over 1,000 I think they will be fine on 2/3 engineers considering that most just have to wait for damage

There must be other things to do for a starship engineer than just repair damage.

I don’t think engineering is being big enough for them all at once like during red alert.

All the engineering staff might not be in engineering, I'd imagine engineers are needed all around the ship.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

. And plus the cre is cross trained so I’m sure when the battle is over jellico would let the engineers that were in security lend a hand in engineering.

Really? Given that this is the guy who thought that running his crew ragged by overworking them in the lead up to a dangerous situation I have my doubts.

 

[Gabriel]

Really? Given that this is the guy who thought that running his crew ragged by overworking them in the lead up to a dangerous situation I have my doubts.

If they can’t take the pressure then they don’t belong in the uniform. Also I’m sure jellico k owe how important it is to do engineering repairs

 

[Mojochi]

After reading some of the comments that talk about how imcompetent Picard seems to be, why do you even pay any attention to this program?

Imagine Picard in command of the same mission that Jellico had. Would he have done changes? Probably not because he knows the ship and its capabilities. Jellico on the other hand didn't have experience with Galaxy class ships and yet he wanted to make everything his way. Can we be absolutely sure he was actually improving the ship? Picard had run the ship for over 5 years, Jellico had been around for 5 hours.

Dude, Picard makes some changes even in the implementation of a battle exercise, in Peak Performance, & that's just a one off exercise. In Yesterday's Enterprise the whole ship is run differently. In Redemption, he reassigns people for a simple blockade, & let's not forget that there was one rather contentious change that took place in BoBW. They literally brought in somebody who was meant to be his new 1st officer, changing the whole dynamic of his command crew. Every situation possesses different dynamics, & the fact that Jellico is making changes isn't in itself condemnable, & since no one says the things he's ordering are wrong, then it's assumed that he's in the right for doing so. The only issue is that it's being asked with crisis immediacy, which is something these people ought to be capable of dealing with

What you must imagine is Picard being made to go into a mission that's negotiation is going to fail, & the result will be a long term war that has his ship on the arrow's tip of the front line. He ain't ever done that before, with that ship, unless you count Yesterday's Enterprise. I certainly think he could do it. probably just as well as Jellico, but a war Enterprise under him would still likely be changed

 

[JesterFace]

I certainly think he could do it. probably just as well as Jellico

Perhaps even better?

 

[Gabriel]

Perhaps even better?

Ehh maybe but he would’t Like it. Remember he considers himself a explorer and said starfleet was not a military. So he definitely wouldn’t like being a warrior. Which is weird considering all the fights he’s been in. He is in a way a warrior. He just won’t admit it.

 

[JesterFace]

Ehh maybe but he would’t Like it. Remember he considers himself a explorer and said starfleet was not a military. So he definitely wouldn’t like being a warrior. Which is weird considering all the fights he’s been in. He is in a way a warrior. He just won’t admit it.

Picard may not like being a warrior but that's one way captain may have to operate when the situations calls for it.

 

[Mojochi]

Perhaps even better?

Very possibly. I even voted for him in this poll myself. The war in Yesterday's Enterprise may have been going south for Starfleet, but Picard himself seemed more than capable of commanding one of the fleet's best ships. Couple that with the fact that he seemed to have some interesting history on the Stargazer, during the Cardassian War, & I'd say there's more than enough evidence to think he'd be a very good wartime captain

I honestly don't think Picard ever gets reassigned in Chain of Command, if there hadn't been a deliberate lure designed specifically to draw him out. Without that factor, this mission is Picard's, especially considering how well he handled things in The Wounded

 

[Leviathan]

...I wonder how many lights Jellico saw.

 

[JesterFace]

Nice to read some good words about Picard and his abilities as captain, for a moment it felt like he doesn't deserve to sit in "the middle seat".

 

[Mojochi]

Nice to read some good words about Picard and his abilities as captain, for a moment it felt like he doesn't deserve to sit in "the middle seat".

I never get why we see any anti-Picard sentiment. There's really only a moment or two for any TNG character, where I'd be against them. Riker's is Chain of Command, & Picard's is Homeward. The rest of the time, I'm usually able to back their actions. Generally speaking, I always try to be supportive of Starfleet officers, until we can see that they are unquestionably wrongful, like Pressman. Starfleet officers are supposed to be the good guys. That includes the outliers like Jellico & Shelby

I tell you this though. The only flaw for Picard in Chain of Command is that he's too loyal imho. That trap he fell into was so damn obvious, were it me, I might've told Nechayev to go climb a tree, before I went all black ops for her dumb ass on this

Seriously, are you all that stupid? You have reports of a WMD device that only one single active officer is qualified to go investigate, on an otherwise worthless hunk of dirt, in their territory, when there's an area of worlds they want back, that his ship is supposed to be in charge of, during an invasion, & no one smells anything funny about that? Are you deliberately TRYING to get him killed? How obvious does something have to be before someone at command thinks "Hey, this is way too coincidental"? I mean it had to be a concern, or Picard himself wouldn't have been kept in the dark about it. Somebody was savvy enough to keep it secret from him so that something like this very incident couldn't be used to extract it from him, but then they're too stupid to see that gambit coming?

 

[JesterFace]

^^ I found it silly that only one man, Picard, was qualified to command this infiltration mission.
In a way it's plausible but.. there was no one else?

That's why I think the entire 'Chain of Command' story is not among the strongest TNG stories.
Although, because of that it has been many years since I watched these episodes, maybe I should check them out.

If not for anything else, Ronny Cox does nice work as a bit difficult captain to get along with.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Seriously, are you all that stupid? You have reports of a WMD device that only one single active officer is qualified to go investigate,

It makes as much sense as the Enterprise being the only starship able to respond to any crisis, V'ger, Regula 1, or Nimbus III (which is to say, it's par for the course). True, there's no reason to send Picard even if he's the only officer who is an expert on particular waves. He could be reassigned to train and direct the mission from afar. However, it's still a contrivance that drives the franchise: only our heroes can save the day.

 

[Mojochi]

^^ I found it silly that only one man, Picard, was qualified to command this infiltration mission.
In a way it's plausible but.. there was no one else?

Well, sure, if the goal of the Cardasssians is to design a lure specifically for Picard, then it's at least plausible that they'd find something that he & only he is capable of. They could've spent years tapping into their spy network trying to find out everything they could, that might be useable for separating him from the rest

What makes it hard to swallow is... how rare is that? The odds that an incident would come up with such a specific detail that singles out only one person would be astronomical. For that reason, people's skepticism should've been heightened. Somebody has to start thinking "TRAP" before it's too late

So basically, Starfleet command is either dunces when it comes to Cardassians (Admiral Kenelly's gullibility in Ensign Ro would seem to support this) or, people at command DID suspect that it was all a scam, but sent Picard anyway, knowing full well he'd be walking into a trap, & might die or be caught, because they figured his life was less important than the possibility that it might not be fake. That's why I'd tell Nechayev to get bent, if they were sending me on a fool's errand, with my life on the line. Sorry... take the badge right now. Picard shouldn't be so gullible, given how well he negotiated The Defector situation. THAT's how you watch your back

It makes as much sense as the Enterprise being the only starship able to respond to any crisis, V'ger, Regula 1, or Nimbus III (which is to say, it's par for the course).

Not that I'm excusing their tendency to overdo the "You're the only ship " trope, but I'd think the odds of one single person, being the only option, are far greater than the odds of one of Starfleet's ships being the only one able. They've got only like several thousand ships all over the galaxy, but they have hundreds of thousands of officers, & while training is a good point, they do make it seem like this was something that caught them by surprise, hence all the hurried preparation from Jellico & Picard. There was barely enough time for a few test runs with Picard. How long would it take for him to give somebody the knowledge in how to deal with a science aspect? Probably longer

 

[Gabriel]

Who Knows maybe someone in command just didn’t like picard. And Thought this be the perfect way to get rid of him.

 

[Discofan]

At least Jellico was smart enough to recognize that Picard's mission was a no-win scenario. "Let's hope you beat the odds" reads "There's no way in Hell that you'll succeed!".

 

[CorporalClegg]

Jellico was a good captain but a terrible leader.

And no, those two things are not the same.

 

[DonIago]

We still don't know how he might have turned out as a leader with more time.

 

[Discofan]

Jellico was a good captain but a terrible leader.

And no, those two things are not the same.

The question is: Was Picard a good leader?

 

[JesterFace]

The question is: Was Picard a good leader?

The answer is: Yes, Picard was a good leader.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Picard was an excellent leader.

And I'd even go so far to argue that he was also a very mediocre captain. Gasp!

 

[Noname Given]

Picard was an excellent leader.

And I'd even go so far to argue that he was also a very mediocre captain. Gasp!

He often inspired those under his command, but he was often hipocritical, and self righteous often to the Federation and often his crew and his Ship's detriment.

I sure as hell would not want to serve under his command.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

And no, those two things are not the same.

Correct, command and leadership are not the same thing. However, in many ways of thinking, emergencies necessitate "authoritarian leadership," or a leadership that appeals to the fact of being in command than any particular skills that allowed the person in command to obtain the rank or status s/he did. Clearly, several people, including Jellico and Nechayev, saw this as an emergency. Unfortunately, this means we never really get to see what Jellico was like on a normal day.

 

[Discofan]

Maybe Netchayev was right and the destruction of the Borg is much more important than the moral discomfort of one self-righteous captain.

Remember what Garak said on a similar matter:

"And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain."

 

[JesterFace]

There's a lot of criticism towards Picard here.

Anyone have examples of hypocrisy and self righteousness that he's is being accused of?
Nobody is perfect.

I'm not saying Picard is without any flaws but overall he was a good captain.