when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century

[Gabriel]

Well for me I go what memory alpha says. Because it’s usually right and only lets cannon and trust me they are very they’re making sure very little non Canon is on there. Call it retcons if you want some retcons are good. Because according to memory alpha TOS was 2265-2269
And the orginal movies were 2270s-2293
TNG was 2364-2370 DS9 was 2369-2376, voyager is 2371-2378. ENT is 2150-2155 and DSC is 2256-

 

[Mudd]

You know I’ve been wondering. What do you guys think about the writers in TOS. Did they suck, were good, or just ok. I mean some times they rocked and some times they completely missed the shot. What about TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, DSC, original movies, TNG movie, new movies.

They were the best writers to work on Trek.

 

[marsh8472]

DULMUR: The man was a menace. What was the date of your arrival?
SISKO: Stardate 4523.7.
DULMUR: A hundred and five years, one month, and twelve days ago. (2268)
LUCSLY: A Friday.
...
DAX: I used to have one of these. I love classic twenty third century designs. Black finish, silver highlights.

ICHEB: Though it was a blatant violation of the Prime Directive, Kirk saved the Pelosians from extinction, just as he had the Baezians and the Chenari many years earlier. Finally, in the year 2270, Kirk completed his historic five year mission and one of the greatest chapters in Starfleet history came to a close. A new chapter began when Kirk regained command of the Enterprise.

 

[Kor]

[Quoted dialog]

Retroactive continuity.

Kor

 

[Gabriel]

Retroactive continuity.

Kor

And look here I don’t care. I like the fact that they put in those years. To me TOS works better if it happens later. And I’m sure others would agree

 

[Marsden]

Okay, deep breaths everyone.

@MAGolding , I don’t have any idea how a simple misspelling can spin you into a rant like that, but it’s completely off topic for this thread and this forum.

You really need to step back and reevaluate your participation on this board if that’s how you’re going to respond to a simple spelling mistake.

Consider this your one (and only) get out of jail free card. Next time you will receive a formal warning.

I expect this sidetrack to be abandoned, by everyone, immediately.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled nonsense.

Can I mention the hot dogs?

http://www.kahns.com/products/

My friend Fred used to do his bad Ricardo Montalban voice and say, "Kirk, you will eat my hot dogs!"

 

[Damian]

Nowadays using all the information we learned from the various shows and so forth, the 5 year mission took place from 2265 to 2270. TWOK was the first time we got any inkling of the time period when it started with the late 23rd century. So extrapolating from that (and knowing it was 15 years post Space Seed) it was probably safe to assume the original series was at least mid 23rd century.

But prior to TWOK, it was pretty vague, which is how Rodenberry wanted it. We did have Kirk saying in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" that 200 years would be just about right. That was probably the first time we got any clue, which would have placed it at minimum in the 22nd century. So I can see prior to TWOK people thinking it could have been anywhere from the late 22nd century to early 23rd century (assuming Kirk's statement was just a minimum ballpark figure). And of course I remember reading some reference materials early on that had a late 22nd century timeframe.

But using the on screen 'canon' explanations, of which there are a lot now, it's established the original series took place in 2265-70. It's supported by a lot of evidence across the board now. Now if someone wants to ignore all that and pretend it's the 22nd century, well to each their own. I'm not sure why someone would want to do that but

 

[Damian]

I do think part of the confusion in the early days was the desire to keep it vague. There was no real guidelines in the 60's as to when Star Trek took place, except that it was in the future.

Now as time went on their was a greater desire to make the timeframe more specific. Vague is good when you are beginning something, but I'd imagine as time went on it would eventually become a hindrance. You might want to do a story about something in Earth's history (or future history like the Bell Riots) and keeping the timeframe overly vague after a while probably would make it difficult to write a story about Earth history. Of course we finally got a firm year in TNG episode "The Neutral Zone" and promotional materials told us TNG was 78 years post TVH. Then Voyager gave us another year to work from in the episode where they go back to the last 20th century (I'm blanking on the name of the episode at the moment). And eventually Enterprise and Discovery gave us further specifics. So there's a lot of evidence out there today, tons in fact.

 

[Christopher]

Retroactive continuity.

Lots of continuity is retroactive. The Federation is a retcon -- for the first half or so of season 1, the Enterprise is purely an Earth ship. The Klingons are a retcon -- a well-established enemy that was never mentioned until the end of season 1. Carol and David Marcus are huge retcons of Kirk's past.

 

[Gabriel]

Lots of continuity is retroactive. The Federation is a retcon -- for the first half or so of season 1, the Enterprise is purely an Earth ship. The Klingons are a retcon -- a well-established enemy that was never mentioned until the end of season 1. Carol and David Marcus are huge retcons of Kirk's past.

Yeah that explains Kirk saying United earth ship. Which is good because I liked the name United Federation of Planets

 

[johnnybear]

Lots of continuity is retroactive. The Federation is a retcon -- for the first half or so of season 1, the Enterprise is purely an Earth ship. The Klingons are a retcon -- a well-established enemy that was never mentioned until the end of season 1. Carol and David Marcus are huge retcons of Kirk's past.

The Klingons and the Federation had probably been less antagonistic towards each other for the last decade or so at that time so Kirk never thinks much about them out on the frontier but after the negotiations over the disputed areas break down the Klingons decide to impose their old will over the galaxy once again! A bit like how TNG states that the Romulans disappeared behind the neutral zone for generations after the Tomed incident!
JB

 

[1001001]

The Klingons and the Federation had probably been less antagonistic towards each other for the last decade or so at that time so Kirk never thinks much about them out on the frontier but after the negotiations over the disputed areas break down the Klingons decide to impose their old will over the galaxy once again!

The war with the Klingons ends about 10 years before this, so it certainly could be that Kirk began his mission relatively unconcerned....

 

[Christopher]

The war with the Klingons ends about 10 years before this, so it certainly could be that Kirk began his mission relatively unconcerned....

Yeah, but the first time the audience learns of the Klingons' existence, at the start of "Errand of Mercy," is at a moment when months of peace talks with them have collapsed and an expected war finally breaks out. That's a definite retcon, the revelation that tensions have been building toward war this whole time and we never heard a word about it.

Although it's not as huge a retcon as the Federation-Cardassian war. TNG's first couple of seasons showed a Federation at peace, a Starfleet devoted to science and diplomacy, so far removed from war and combat that Picard didn't even believe there was any point to holding war games in "Peak Performance." Yet then "The Wounded" in season 4 suddenly revealed that the UFP had been at war with the Cardassians until only one year before, meaning Starfleet was retroactively on a wartime footing at the same moment Picard insisted that Starfleet was not a combat organization and had no use for war games. (Although that can sort of be reconciled if you assume the state of war was only technical, a declared political enmity persisting long after the actual fighting had stopped, like with North and South Korea.)

In fact, I question whether the Cardassian thing really counts as a retcon in the strict sense. People tend to use the term to mean a change that contradicts past continuity, but as Kor mentioned above, the term is short for "retroactive continuity," not retroactive discontinuity. It should mean new information that fits smoothly into past continuity and doesn't conflict with it. That applies to the Klingon thing; it's new information about the past, but it doesn't clash with what was shown before. The Cardassian war does clash significantly with past continuity and it's challenging (though not impossible) to reconcile it. So that's a "retcon" in the looser vernacular sense of the word, heavier on the "retroactive" part than the "continuity" part.

 

[johnnybear]

The Cardassian conflict was years before TNG started surely? O'Brien who served in the war was on the Enterprise D from the first episode so it must have been a few years before!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

The war with the Klingons ends about 10 years before this, so it certainly could be that Kirk began his mission relatively unconcerned....

But I'm not convinced one bit that DSC takes place in the same reality! The only other evidence of a previous conflict or perhaps a skirmish was the Donatu V reference in Trouble with Tribbles!
JB

 

[1001001]

Whether or not you’re convinced, it does.

 

[Gabriel]

Whether or not you’re convinced, it does.

Although they need to tie it in a little bit more

 

[1001001]

Alex Kurtzman has said publicly that by the time the show is over, all perceived deviations from canon will be resolved.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

To me personally, there were three things mentioned by Gene Roddenbery in the book 'The Making of Star Trek', that helped set the five-year-mission in the 23rd Century around the years 2265-2270 give or take a year or two. .

In the beginning of Part I Chapter 3 - 'A Spark of Life' there is a quote from Gene that begins, 'Intolerance in the 23rd Century? Improbable!'

Later in Part I Chapter 8 Page 128 - 'Birth Pangs' - Gene again says, 'I decided to wait for a 23rd Century audience before I went that far again'.

Finally in Part II Chapter 2 Page 198 - 'USS Enterprise' - Gene says, 'In the beginning, I invented the term 'Star Date' simply to keep from typing ourselves down to 2265 A.D., or should it be 2312 A.D.?'

Since the book was written and published between the second and third seasons of Star Trek, whether consciously or unconsciously, Gene had already settled on the 23rd Century as the setting for Star Trek; and the date 2265 meant it was at a point approximately 300 years in the future.

 

[Longinus]

Although it's not as huge a retcon as the Federation-Cardassian war. TNG's first couple of seasons showed a Federation at peace, a Starfleet devoted to science and diplomacy, so far removed from war and combat that Picard didn't even believe there was any point to holding war games in "Peak Performance." Yet then "The Wounded" in season 4 suddenly revealed that the UFP had been at war with the Cardassians until only one year before, meaning Starfleet was retroactively on a wartime footing at the same moment Picard insisted that Starfleet was not a combat organization and had no use for war games. (Although that can sort of be reconciled if you assume the state of war was only technical, a declared political enmity persisting long after the actual fighting had stopped, like with North and South Korea.)

It is because from the Federation's perspective it was an inconsequential border skirmish with an insignificant minor power. Sure it deeply affected those who were personally involved, but to the Federation as a whole it wouldn't have really much mattered.