Silaran Prin morally justified? ("The Darkness And The Light")

[marsh8472]

Was wondering what people thought of Silaran Prin from episode "The Darkness And The Light"? He went after the Shakaar resistance cell and managed to kill 5 of them from that group during the course of the episode. From his point of view he was getting justice against them for an attack they carried out at Hathon which resulted in 12 cardassian deaths, left 23 others crippled, and left him personally disfigured. Was he justified in trying to kill them? or should he have let this go after the war ended?

 

[Tosk]

My opinion is that he was more interested in revenge than justice and that his stance that he is as justified in his actions as Kira was in hers is faulty.

 

[DonIago]

By the time we meet Prin I'd say he's a bit nutty, but I also think Kira sounded uncharacteristically extremist when she declared that any Cardassian on Bajor was a legitimate target....I like to think she was saying that to goad Prin, but since it never comes up again, an argument can be made either way.

 

[marsh8472]

My opinion is that he was more interested in revenge than justice and that his stance that he is as justified in his actions as Kira was in hers is faulty.

Even if that's true could that revenge be morally justified? Her attack was intended to kill Gul Pirak for having 15 bajorians executed but the explosion also killed his family and a lot of others. Usually the rules of war forbid something like that. Whereas Silaran's attacks were more surgical and avoided collateral damage.

 

[Tosk]

Even if that's true could that revenge be morally justified? Her attack was intended to kill Gul Pirak for having 15 bajorians executed but the explosion also killed his family and a lot of others. Usually the rules of war forbid something like that. Whereas Silaran's attacks were more surgical and avoided collateral damage.

What rules of war?

Her attacks were done against an invading force. His attacks were just murder after the fact because he was angry. I'm not saying he has no right to be angry, but he's not on stable moral ground to hunt them all down.

 

[marsh8472]

What rules of war?

Her attacks were done against an invading force. His attacks were just murder after the fact because he was angry. I'm not saying he has no right to be angry, but he's not on stable moral ground to hunt them all down.

Whatever conventions they have in the 24th century. Geneva conventions in todays time could classify killing Gul Pirak's family in the blast a form of collective punishment. "No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.". Kira is referred to and calls herself a terrorist in other episodes. But since Cardassians lost the war there may not be anything the government can do to prosecute who they see as war criminals which leaves people seeking justice no other choice but to use their own vigilante justice or accept the injustice.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Even if that's true could that revenge be morally justified?

Revenge, by definition, never IS justified.

 

[marsh8472]

Revenge, by definition, never IS justified.

I haven't found any definitions that describe revenge as unjust. https://www.debate.org/opinions/is-revenge-justified people look pretty split on the issue

 

[Tosk]

Whatever conventions they have in the 24th century.

That's my point though. One would have to show that Bajor had similar rules of war, or any kind of agreement with Cardassia.

This isn't two forces fighting over territory, this is a group of people breaking into your house, taking all your stuff and forcing you to do whatever they want and then complaining that when you fight to get them out one of their kids gets hurt.

 

[marsh8472]

That's my point though. One would have to show that Bajor had similar rules of war, or any kind of agreement with Cardassia.

This isn't two forces fighting over territory, this is a group of people breaking into your house, taking all your stuff and forcing you to do whatever they want and then complaining that when you fight to get them out one of their kids gets hurt.

Bajor no longer had a government so I doubt there would have been an agreement between Cardassia and Bajor unless it was an edict. In the example above, would it not be morally justified to hold someone accountable for an act that resulted in the death of innocent civilians/children? It's more like Silaran Prin and others were victims of circumstances. He took a bad job as a servant cleaning uniforms and ended up the victim of a terrorist attack. The target of the attack was Gul Pirak and it was their decision to attack him and do it the way they did. From the victim's point of view, why would they not feel morally justified to hold them responsible for the consequences of their actions?

 

[Tosk]

In the example above, would it not be morally justified to hold someone accountable for an act that resulted in the death of innocent civilians/children?

Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, holding someone accountable is a long way from "hunt them down and murder them one by one, all the while taunting the last one with the deaths of the others."

He took a bad job as a servant cleaning uniforms and ended up the victim of a terrorist attack.

Took a bad job where he was part of an invading force that enslaved and killed millions of people that were minding their own business. If you break into someone's house and they respond with deadly force, that's on you.

 

[marsh8472]

Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, holding someone accountable is a long way from "hunt them down and murder them one by one, all the while taunting the last one with the deaths of the others."

He did not think of it as murder since they were guilty in his eyes and did not deserve mercy in his eyes but the deaths were pretty quick anyway.

Took a bad job where he was part of an invading force that enslaved and killed millions of people that were minding their own business. If you break into someone's house and they respond with deadly force, that's on you.

Could they not also say that if someone kills non-military personal or children in the process of using their deadly force then it's on them also? DS9 "Rules of Engagement" explored this when charging Worf with murder after appearing to accidentally kill civilians during a battle. Prin's actions remind me of those of the antagonist in that 2017 movie "Drone"

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[Tosk]

He did not think of it as murder since they were guilty in his eyes and did not deserve mercy in his eyes

You asked for our opinions, not his. Clearly he thought he was justified. I disagree with him. He's a little insane by the time we meet him, but even if not for that I understand his stance. I would probably feel the same in his exact position.

but the deaths were pretty quick anyway.

Oh. I guess that makes it okay then.

Could they not also say that if someone kills non-military personal or children in the process of using their deadly force then it's on them also? DS9 "Rules of Engagement" explored this when charging Worf with murder after appearing to accidentally kill civilians during a battle.

The Federation and the Klingons were at war. Worf faced a stiff penalty if he had been proven negiligent with his act. That’s not remotely the position the Bajorans were in. They were being forcibly occupied for five decades and the ruling power forced slavery, rape, and murder upon the population. The Cardassians were an aggressive power forcing their pitiless will upon another. Do I feel bad for the "innocent" victims of the Resistance attacks? Sure. But my answer is still that Prin’s actions were revenge and not justice.

 

[DonIago]

If nothing else, to me justice involves due process.

 

[Farscape One]

The Cardassians had no business occupying Bajor. The Bajorans, as far as I'm concerned, were perfectly justified in using any and all tactics to get them off their planet. That includes what happened in this instance.

And Kira was right... they were all guilty just by being there. Any Cardassian being there and working there meant they were fine with what was happening to the Bajorans.

So with that in mind, Prin was just out for revenge. Not justice.

Now, I will give Prin credit in that he performed his revenge with absolutely no collateral deaths, something that does make the argument for both sides work.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

No, he was not morally justified. He’s a murderer. His anger may have been justified. It’s no different than if German civilians started trying to murder the WWII veterans who killed their family in war.

If every vigilante could be excused because they considered their actions just, chaos would result.

 

[marsh8472]

If nothing else, to me justice involves due process.

Cardassian due process determines the verdict before the trial. It's safe to say she would have been found guilty for something already. The likely problem would be Bajor would not extradite Kira. That would leave the victims with little choice but to settle for what they might consider injustice or do something about it on their own through vigilante justice like what Prin did.

The Cardassians had no business occupying Bajor. The Bajorans, as far as I'm concerned, were perfectly justified in using any and all tactics to get them off their planet. That includes what happened in this instance.

And Kira was right... they were all guilty just by being there. Any Cardassian being there and working there meant they were fine with what was happening to the Bajorans.

So with that in mind, Prin was just out for revenge. Not justice.

Now, I will give Prin credit in that he performed his revenge with absolutely no collateral deaths, something that does make the argument for both sides work.

The government was being run by a totalitarian military dictatorship. Maybe he wasn't given much of a choice but to be there. Cardassians occupied Bajor because their own world lacked many natural resources and made up for that by strip mining neighboring worlds like Bajor. Bajor would have been controlled by Cardiassia all of Prin's life where he would have been born into the idea of that world being just another world of theirs.

 

[Tosk]

Bajor would have been controlled by Cardiassia all of Prin's life where he would have been born into the idea of that world being just another world of theirs.

In what way does that make it right?

He was just a servant...who still ate well and stayed warm at night while they stripped the planet of resources and worked the population to death.

 

[Farscape One]

Precisely.

I would have done exactly the same things as the Bajorans did if I was in that situation. They are all guilty.

 

[marsh8472]

In what way does that make it right?

He was just a servant...who still ate well and stayed warm at night while they stripped the planet of resources and worked the population to death.

By today's standards it's wrong to punish individuals for the crimes of what their government did https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment