Case dismissed! Discovery and Tardigrade game "not similar"

[cultcross]

he showed where it could be published

And the court, quite reasonably, did not accept on that basis that it was likely CBS stumbled across the game. They have asked for evidence that they did.

For a conviction - you'd actually have to prove it "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Again, that's criminal court. Civil burden of proof is different.

But not allowing him to tools of the court - which can actually ask for early development bibles

Where does it say he can't ask the court to order access to material?

They are simply giving him a burden that's impossible to clear.

Not at all, we've already gone into several ways he could clear it.

Wheras for any corporation, the reasonable possibility would have already been enough.

If it was Dune or Star Trek, it is very likely a defendant would have access to the property (although they would have to prove this point in court same as anyone, as already discussed). For some obscure game you barely can find if you're searching for it, you bet they're going to ask for more.

Also: Everybody here seems to think I want to use that to bash DIS somehow. That's not my intention!

No they don't - you keep repeating this, but everyone is telling you you're wrong on the points of law, not that you hate Discovery. Your opinion on Discovery is irrelevant to the point.

 

[Amaris]

What? It's called burden of proof on the accuser. They made the claim (copyright infringement), they have to provide evidence to make a case. That's how courts are supposed to work.

This. I despise corporations, but if someone says a corporation stole their property, then they have to provide evidence to accompany that accusation. If that weren't so, then I'd have long since sued the porn industry for my naked pizza delivery idea.

 

[Tuskin38]

I really do think "mansized blue sparkling FTL-Tardigrade" is specific enough that not many other people can claim similar similarities on a show to their work!

Not really

 

[KennyB]

I know you're just reporting facts, but you've indirectly condemned the writer you mention in your article to months of online abuse and rape threats, because your article and writing will be used by the white trash YouTubers for their upcoming bullshit.

That is stupid. It’s public record and Carlos didn’t name her, the plaintiff did. Carlos is not the only person covering this. It troubles me that is where your mind went so quickly.

 

[Rahul]

If it was Dune or Star Trek, it is very likely a defendant would have access to the property (although they would have to prove this point in court same as anyone, as already discussed). For some obscure game you barely can find if you're searching for it, you bet they're going to ask for more.

I really think that's IMO the poodle's core: They claim his property is so small, they wouldn't stumble across it, and dismiss the entire thing based on this. But they're not just "asking for more" - he already presented more. They're asking him for evidence absolutely impossible to find out for him alone - the precise individual that accessed his information. This is information only the court itself could find out (by ordering supplemental material like early development bibles or computer logs - which CBS won't give out on their own).

Following this logic, everything published ever by a single individual would be completely fair game to rip off! Self published books? Video games? Any bigger company could easily copy the complete concept up into the details, and then claim the original property was simply "too obscure" for them to ever find it. Now matter how similar it is ("mansized blue sparkling tardigrades used as FTL in space") That's not how it works. This guy has given enough evidence that there might be a case. This case should be looked at. Not even looking at this case based on the "obscurity" of his game renderes the whole system injust.

Anyway - I'm off now! You guys made some good points, some I agree with, others I don't. Would like to continue further - but real life calls.

Bye bye!

Anyway, I wanted to go. But I appreciate your responses, and saw this one just popping up when I wanted to go. I'll do that now, belated.

See you - you made some of the best arguments, even if they didn't entirely convince me personally. I'll enjoy reading the next posts tomorrow.

 

[Krandor]

But you simply CAN'T prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" before the case even begins. That's what they are asking of him: Prove, without a reasonable doubt, that CBS stole the idea. But not allowing him to tools of the court - which can actually ask for early development bibles . They are simply giving him a burden that's impossible to clear. Wheras for any corporation, the reasonable possibility would have already been enough.

They ARE giving him the "tools of the court" in terms of Discovery (the process). He gets to ask CBS for information in order to prove that they stole his ideas. So anything he thinks CBS has that will prove the limited scope of CBS saw the information on his game he can ask for.

 

[cultcross]

They claim his property is so small, they wouldn't stumble across it,

Yes,

and dismiss the entire thing based on this

But no. It's explicitly not been dismissed. He had been given the opportunity to present evidence that the unlikely thing happened, and an employee of CBS involved even tangentially in the creative process has access to his game.

They're asking him for evidence absolutely impossible to find out for him alone -

We've already covered why it isn't impossible. You're going round in circles. He has access not only to the sources he has put his ideas on, but, via instruments of the court if necessary, to information held by others. All civil cases involve investigation by the plaintiff if they want to prove their case, just as the prosecution in a criminal case must investigate to prove theirs.

This case should be looked at.

It is being looked at. This is what 'being looked at' is. A case isn't just looking at pictures of Tardigrades and arguing over whether they are the same. The case is that CBS infringed his copyright, so he must demonstrate that they had the opportunity to do so. Perfectly reasonable. If he demonstrates that they had access, and substantial similarity, well CBS have questions to answer. Until then, they do not.

Not even looking at this case based on the "obscurity" of his game renderes the whole system injust.

Luckily, that's not what's happening.

 

[Krandor]

We've already covered why it isn't impossible. You're going round in circles. He has access not only to the sources he has put his ideas on, but, via instruments of the court if necessary, to information held by others. All civil cases involve investigation by the plaintiff if they want to prove their case, just as the prosecution in a criminal case must investigate to prove theirs.

Exactly. If I'm him, I ask for emails and storyboard type material from the first few months of discovery development. If he is right and they did take his idea there is likely something in those that would point toward his game... People can easily let things slip in email.

Clearly a list of everybody on the DSC cast that has a steam account and their username will be asked for. Not sure what, if any, info they'd be able to get from steam but if one of those usernames posted on the game's forum there is something.

Also, you'd ask for anybody that has an account on adventuregamig site (same reason)

Since he also wants to claim the look of the characters were taken from his game, I'd want to see the casting sheets as well to see how much they match. Though that might fall outside the scope of current discovery.

There are things they can ask for that could possibly prove what he is being asked to prove. It isn't impossible.

 

[Red Panda]

That is stupid. It’s public record and Carlos didn’t name her, the plaintiff did. Carlos is not the only person covering this. It troubles me that is where your mind went so quickly.

I'm not blaming him for doing his job, but when you know your website is going to get dedicated videos by alt-right fans on YouTube, including a photo of a writer doesn't feel right to me. Even that female YouTuber (Mecha something or other) is a misogynistic pig.

 

[carlosp]

Clearly a list of everybody on the DSC cast that has a steam account and their username will be asked for. Not sure what, if any, info they'd be able to get from steam but if one of those usernames posted on the game's forum there is something.

Also, you'd ask for anybody that has an account on adventuregamig site (same reason)

Since he also wants to claim the look of the characters were taken from his game, I'd want to see the casting sheets as well to see how much they match. Though that might fall outside the scope of current discovery.

Most of what you're suggesting is outside the very limited scope of discovery permitted in the judge's order, which is restricted ONLY to the question of whether any of DSC's creators accessed or voted on Abdin's game proposal on Steam back in 2015.

To that end, the ONLY person they've named so far (and, remember, they still have nine weeks of discovery left to find more) doesn't appear to have been working for DSC at the time she would've needed to in order to have influenced the key aspects of the show that were already in place by the time Bryan Fuller left, a month before she joined the writing staff.

The more evidence I'm digging up, the less compelling Abdin's lawyers' attempt to demonstrate access is becoming. Note, for example, that the named DSC writer simply couldn't have been aware of the Steam Greenlight voting on Tardigrades because that was concluded in August 2015, and she didn't join Steam until FIVE MONTHS LATER, in January 2016.

Also, for the record, @Rahul, you cannot copyright ideas. The only things protected under copyright law are specific expressions of ideas.

 

[jespah]

@jespah you have been summoned. *Lights ritual candle

I saw the pie signal. What can I do ya for?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

This. I despise corporations, but if someone says a corporation stole their property, then they have to provide evidence to accompany that accusation. If that weren't so, then I'd have long since sued the porn industry for my naked pizza delivery idea.

I'll take one large with extra cheese.

 

[XCV330]

I'll take one large with extra cheese.

Pizza is to be served in a box. A naked pizza exposed to the lustful stares of wayward men, women, and various pepperoni eating birds is both sinful and corrupts the community.

 

[Noname Given]

Indeed. The case seems as follows:

1) CBS is unable to prove they had the Tardigrade idea before the Game was published
2) The Game guy is unable to find and identify the single person that has seen his Game in the CBS company.

Which is some grade A bullshit if you ask me.

Even in Civil Tort - it's not up to CBS to prove they're innocent, the Plaintiff needs to have verifiable evidence that CBS employees knowingly plagiarized his work. If he can't do that, ultimately he won't receive damages.

 

[carlosp]

Even in Civil Tort - it's not up to CBS to prove they're innocent, the Plaintiff needs to have verifiable evidence that CBS employees knowingly plagiarized his work. If he can't do that, ultimately he won't receive damages.

Thanks to his late copyright registration, and even if he does win, Abdin is only eligible for actual damages, which will be difficult to prove since the game has yet to be released.

 

[Noname Given]

Thanks to his late copyright registration, and even if he does win, Abdin is only eligible for actual damages, which will be difficult to prove since the game has yet to be released.

Lol - Yeah, it makes me wonder why he's bothering at this point then. It's not like CBS has a counterclaim asking for an injunction against him selling said game. So, yeah, if all he can get AT BEST is statutory damages - lol.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I seem to recall an allegation regarding inconsistencies in what Abdin has claimed as the content of his game and/or the intended content of his game. I've asked before whether anyone can clarify that, so I may as well ask again. What's the story on this point?

 

[BurnhamAll]

Stop feeding the troll. He has no idea about how court works, how the law works, and has an obvious vendetta against Discovery such that he's desperate for the courts to shut it down, or at best to prove that the people behind it are criminals in some regard.

Oh wait, is this the guy from Midnight's Edge?

 

[fireproof78]

Stop feeding the troll. He has no idea about how court works, how the law works, and has an obvious vendetta against Discovery such that he's desperate for the courts to shut it down, or at best to prove that the people behind it are criminals in some regard.

Oh wait, is this the guy from Midnight's Edge?

Dude, not a good idea. If you think someone is trolling tell a mod. But, it's clearly a conversation going back and forth. Let's not assume malice ok?

 

[BurnhamAll]

Dude, not a good idea. If you think someone is trolling tell a mod. But, it's clearly a conversation going back and forth. Let's not assume malice ok?

It's a metaphor. Why anyone is entertaining him still at this point when he's clearly proven himself to have zero knowledge of the system and nothing but contempt FOR that system is beyond me.