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Case dismissed! Discovery and Tardigrade game "not similar"

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Following this logic, everything published ever by a single individual would be completely fair game to rip off!

Obscurity means nothing in the age of search-engines. The game is called Tardigrades. The likely plagiarism scenario is the writers read about tardigrades in science news and plugged it into a search engine and the game popped up. They followed the link, read the description, and copied the details.

Check this out for yourselves. While the game doesn't show up near the top when searching for tardigrades on google by itself, if you plug it into youtube, it shows up a few pages worth of scrolling down. Pretty highly ranked, although I don't know where it would have been ranked a couple years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tardigrades
 
If I create "Space Trek", the court wouldn't care when and who told me about "Star Trek" - it's enough they published it first and then they would simply look at how similar my "Space Trek" is to theirs.
No, if CBS sued you they'd have to go through the same process, the difference is that it would be incredibly easy to prove that you knew about Star Trek before creating Space Trek. You post on the Trek BBS for starters.
 
Obscurity means nothing in the age of search-engines. The game is called Tardigrades. The likely plagiarism scenario is the writers read about tardigrades in science news and plugged it into a search engine and the game popped up. They followed the link, read the description, and copied the details.

Check this out for yourselves. While the game doesn't show up near the top when searching for tardigrades on google by itself, if you plug it into youtube, it shows up a few pages worth of scrolling down. Pretty highly ranked, although I don't know where it would have been ranked a couple years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tardigrades
Then all they need to do is evidence that's what happened and they have a case. But speculation isn't enough.
 
Obscurity means nothing in the age of search-engines. The game is called Tardigrades. The likely plagiarism scenario is the writers read about tardigrades in science news and plugged it into a search engine and the game popped up. They followed the link, read the description, and copied the details.

Check this out for yourselves. While the game doesn't show up near the top when searching for tardigrades on google by itself, if you plug it into youtube, it shows up a few pages worth of scrolling down. Pretty highly ranked, although I don't know where it would have been ranked a couple years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tardigrades
About a year and a half ago I tried, (right about the time it was becoming more known in Trek circles), it didn't even show up on my list.
I even did a search in STEAM at the time and had trouble finding it.
 
All this case illustrates is how fair the legal system is. Because if it were me, i'd have laughed this guy out of the court when he filed his initial suit.
 
Obscurity means nothing in the age of search-engines. The game is called Tardigrades. The likely plagiarism scenario is the writers read about tardigrades in science news and plugged it into a search engine and the game popped up. They followed the link, read the description, and copied the details.

Check this out for yourselves. While the game doesn't show up near the top when searching for tardigrades on google by itself, if you plug it into youtube, it shows up a few pages worth of scrolling down. Pretty highly ranked, although I don't know where it would have been ranked a couple years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tardigrades
But was information on the game "Tardigrades" even on the internet back during the time Star Trek Discovery was being created, and have been something that a search engine could have found?
 
But was information on the game "Tardigrades" even on the internet back during the time Star Trek Discovery was being created, and have been something that a search engine could have found?
That's the right question. What search results a search engine returns today are not the same results it would have returned years ago. Interest in the game today is being driven by the lawsuit itself.

Also, don't forget that Google uses your own search history to customize your search results, so things you've searched for in the past will drive things towards the top for you that aren't that high for other people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Personalized_Search
 
I don't know if you've been following the Tardigrades Game vs Discovery case. Do you have a take on the court's request for the creator of the game to evidence that CBS had access to it before the case proceeds further? Is this a normal above board request, or something, as Rahul attests, designed to shut out the little guy from justice?
I've been following it a bit. Plaintiff's lawyers are really acting like the gang that couldn't shoot straight. Pretty soon, they'll have an inside straight's worth of amended complaints at this rate.

Judges don't like that.

I think the request is a perfectly valid one. Essentially, the judge is (like all judges do!) trying to see if there's a way to wrap this one up quick. Settlement or summary judgment? It matters less than docket clearing. Something like less than 10% of all cases ever go to trial.

That having been said, the judge is essentially trying to figure out if there is any reason whatsoever to deny the inevitable defense Motion for Summary Judgment. Frankly, I think the judge has been bending over backwards for the plaintiff. That was not necessary.

Having a credible name within the germane time period, accessing the pertinent items (documents, the game, etc.) = summary judgment isn't a slam dunk. Doesn't mean s/j couldn't happen, more that it wouldn't be the lead pipe cinch it currently looks like.

But even given this exceptional gift by the judge, plaintiff's lawyers are still botching it.
 
^^^
The problem with your whole argument here is how you frame it. Why?

You expect that a court of law should automatically assume what one side (The Plaintiff) says MUST be true; and the Plaintiff's case shouldn't be penalized by a court just because his claim is hard to prove.

U.S. Courts DO NOT (and never should) work that way. They Plaintiff is saying the Defendant did something and ASKING FOR DAMAGES (read Money) as a result. To get that he has to prove (in civil court) by a preponderance of evidence that what he claims was in fact done by the Defendant (CBS).

The Defendant CBS claims they didn't and the Plaintiff's claims are false.

The Court ISN'T supposed to believe one side over the other - and it's encumbent of thee one making the allegation to have hard, verifiable evidence that what they claim is in fact true.

So far, the ONLY thing the Judge is asking for is one/some piece of verifiable HARD evidence that isn't: "Well, the info was up on a website on the internet for YEARS, so someone who worked on ST: D's initial development MUST have seen it; and we're sure once they did - THAT sparked the idea for the show....
^^^
That ISN'T HARD evidence. It's 100% supposition (and hearsay) on the Plaintiff's part.

And for the one person the Plaintiff has so far put forward:

- She joined Steam after the vote on the game was concluded (and still no hard evidence she even saw the game info on Steam.)
- She joined the ST: D writing staff AFTER the Tartigrade aspect was already publicly acknowledged as being part of the series.
[/QUOTE]
... So, yeah, again, NO HARD EVIDENCE that his idea was in any was appropriated for the Tartigrade concept of ST: D. Therefore, until the Plaintiff can show some hard evidence that CBS 'stole' his idea, there is NO CASE.[/QUOTE]

Everybody here pretends this guy doesn't have solid evidence. He has. He has published his own creation on a very popular website, that was accessable from everywhere, and a suspiciously short amount of time later, CBS throws their own product out there, that has the exact same content, both in concept and peresentation. Yes, Tardigrades were in the news for some time. "Mansized blue sprakling Tardigrade in space as a means of direct FTL-travel" was not.

That's a suuuper unique concept. So it's not as if when the court actually orders some documents to be handed over, that suddenly every game designer of SF games can do the same. I doubt there are any games with SUCH similarities out there! I just think - personally - that anyone having this amount of similarities has crossed the threshold to warrant an actual investigation. An investigation that needs documents being handed over. Because anything else would be completely unreasonable: This guy alone DOES NOT have subpoena power, or police powers or can just research the Internet usage of an entire company on his own. Asking him to do that - to deliver information a single individual without support from authoritives simply can't ever deliver - is completely bonkers and unreasonable.

No, if CBS sued you they'd have to go through the same process, the difference is that it would be incredibly easy to prove that you knew about Star Trek before creating Space Trek. You post on the Trek BBS for starters.

Here is the thing though: I don't post here under my real name. You'd need to cross-reference that. And that you can only do via the justice system, or illegal (which means it can't be used in the court). That means if the court denies even watching at this in the first place (like it does in this case) - nobody can prove that I saw Star Trek! I didn't have a television when I was younger, and I don't have one now. Prove that I saw it. And to say "well, duh, it was in cinemas, there was publically widely available advertisements for it" - so were for this guys game on the internet.

Really, this whole thing can pretty easily be solved by the court ordering CBS to hand over a single early development document of the show. Which CBS definitely has - for legal reasons. Without that, the case is simply unsolvable. And - for my tastes - these two Tardigrades are close enough to warrant the court actually looking into it.



That apparently this guy has some super inept lawyers is of course not helping him - at all. The truth is, we're all people, and if a judge simply gets fed up with your lawyers, for them demanding preposterous damages and annoying everyone with completely overplaying their hand - a justice might be nudged and simply try to close the case as fast as possible.

But still - the matter at han is that this guy has some really, really credible allegations against CBS - allegations that would have long been settlent if he had an actual other media company backing him up - but there are simply limits to the information a private person can collect: And so far, he has collected everything an individual could, and everything he collected supports his claim. Ordering him to collect even more - something he simply can't find out no matter what, simply because he's lacking the gouvernment ressources to do so (recreate the entire dataflow inside a million dollar company) - feels like they are just searching for a thing he can never, ever deliver in the real world, and then order him to deliver exactly that. Not because it's reasonable. Or even possible. But because everyone just wants to shut the thing down.


On a side note: This is really not the hill I want to die on. I don't even care about this guy personally! By all accounts, he seems to be very... problematic. I just don't like it when large corporations farm ideas to use as their own without re-imbursing the people that originally came up with them. Which sadly happens all the time, and in much worse and more obvious cases than this one (Creators of Batman anyone?). It's still just sad every time it happens.
 
Obscurity means nothing in the age of search-engines. The game is called Tardigrades. The likely plagiarism scenario is the writers read about tardigrades in science news and plugged it into a search engine and the game popped up. They followed the link, read the description, and copied the details.

Check this out for yourselves. While the game doesn't show up near the top when searching for tardigrades on google by itself, if you plug it into youtube, it shows up a few pages worth of scrolling down. Pretty highly ranked, although I don't know where it would have been ranked a couple years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tardigrades

Pretty much. I remember back then finding a trailer for the game pretty much immediately. But it was one not featuring the Tardigrade, just the logo. It was only much, much later (probably after being spammed with Tardigrade-videos here), that the trailer with the actual Tardigrade jumping into hyperspace showed up - and I was pretty surprised to learn how early that one was uploaded to Youtube! Way before DIS was announced.

So yeah, I wouldn't have found the game at random. But someone else might have, and even though Google is probably tracking every individual watching everything - it's really impossible to for anyone else to find out if a person in the development of DIS actually ever watched the video.

I think really the only possible way to find out would be looking at an early development paper from CBS. Everything else will forever always be speculation - with peple like me thinking it's waaay to close to be coincidentally, but other peple having other opinions. But there is simply no other way to find out, and I think the guy has shown enough circumstantial evidence that this should be at least looked at.
 
He doesn't, or this would have been over already.

Well, he doesn't own CBS, so he has no access to their internal documentation and employee web-history. But apart from that - every piece of evidence someone outside the corporation could collect - points toward him being right. Not "prove" it mind you! But is IMO enough circumstantial evidence that a third party really should look at some of these early development papers to collect actual, provable evidence for or against him. Even if only a small glance.
 
Well, he doesn't own CBS, so he has no access to their internal documentation and employee web-history. But apart from that - every piece of evidence someone outside the corporation could collect - points toward him being right. Not "prove" it mind you! But is IMO enough circumstantial evidence that a third party really should look at some of these early development papers to collect actual, provable evidence for or against him. Even if only a small glance.
If he'd had a strong case his options for legal representation would have been a bit different, perhaps, because there would have been calls from IP law specialists knowing exactly how to get CBS to settle out of court quickly for for a decent sum they'd be getting a piece of the pie on.

There's no pie here.
 
If he'd had a strong case his options for legal representation would have been a bit different, perhaps, because there would have been calls from IP law specialists knowing exactly how to get CBS to settle out of court quickly for for a decent sum they'd be getting a piece of the pie on.

There's no pie here.

Yep. Just the type of representation he's retained speaks volumes for how good of a case he has.
 
If he'd had a strong case his options for legal representation would have been a bit different, perhaps, because there would have been calls from IP law specialists knowing exactly how to get CBS to settle out of court quickly for for a decent sum they'd be getting a piece of the pie on.

There's no pie here.

Yeah. I mean, if his game had an actual publisher company, and not just himself - they would already have settled that behind the scenes.

The thing is: Not for very much. I mean, people get payed when their entire novels are adapted to screen. And that is not too much. Having only this one, single idea of him being used? Yeah, he'd get something, but he won't get rich off it.

How much money did VOY save when they invented "Tom Paris" to circumvent paying the guy that invented "Nick Locarno"?
 
Well, he doesn't own CBS, so he has no access to their internal documentation and employee web-history. But apart from that - every piece of evidence someone outside the corporation could collect - points toward him being right. Not "prove" it mind you! But is IMO enough circumstantial evidence that a third party really should look at some of these early development papers to collect actual, provable evidence for or against him. Even if only a small glance.
Isn't that what the court is doing is looking in to it? Not sure how much more of a third party you want here...

I just don't think the guy has as strong of a case as is readily believed. BTS documentation should take care of that but CBS will comply with the court order as limited as possible to protect themselves.
 
Pretty much. I remember back then finding a trailer for the game pretty much immediately. But it was one not featuring the Tardigrade, just the logo. It was only much, much later (probably after being spammed with Tardigrade-videos here), that the trailer with the actual Tardigrade jumping into hyperspace showed up - and I was pretty surprised to learn how early that one was uploaded to Youtube! Way before DIS was announced.

So yeah, I wouldn't have found the game at random. But someone else might have, and even though Google is probably tracking every individual watching everything - it's really impossible to for anyone else to find out if a person in the development of DIS actually ever watched the video.

I think really the only possible way to find out would be looking at an early development paper from CBS. Everything else will forever always be speculation - with people like me thinking it's waaay to close to be coincidentally, but other people having other opinions. But there is simply no other way to find out, and I think the guy has shown enough circumstantial evidence that this should be at least looked at.
How many times do you need to be told that his "Game" wasn't easily located before this all became public knowledge?
(hell , it was damn near impossible to find. I tried)
And it was After The Fact, that he began putting his stuff together in a tangible manner which could be even perceived AS a Game.
He had a jumble of ideas which were only cohearent to him, in a place that one would have to go completely out of one's way to even stumble across.
He didn't even begin to publically worry about a problem existing, until someone said to him he should file a lawsuit.
Abdin jumped into this head first only after some disgruntled Trek fans wanted CBS to stop making DISCOVERY and saw an opportunity to make imagined waves using someone else as their patsy.
:rolleyes:
 
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Yeah. I mean, if his game had an actual publisher company, and not just himself - they would already have settled that behind the scenes.

The thing is: Not for very much. I mean, people get payed when their entire novels are adapted to screen. And that is not too much. Having only this one idea of him being used? Yeah, he'd get something, but he won't get rich of it.

How much money did VOY spare when they invented "Tom Paris" and thus didn't have to pay the guy that invented "Nick Locarno"?
Coals to Newcastle. It doesn't matter the size of the publishing company, its the fact his game was essentially a failure and wouldn't have been seen by anyone at CBS who could have been influenced by it.

And even if they HAD seen it, there are too many reasons that
A: the idea was already out there from previous media that both CBS and he were perhaps influenced by and

B: they both "Borrowed" the concept from Frank Herbert anyway. And I can tell you, Frank Herbert's son LOVES TO use lawyers on anyone he thinks is tarnishing his father's reputation (ruining his father's reputation is his own life's work with a bit of assistance from Kevin J Anderson, thank you very much). If He's not suing, why should anyone else have a case?

No one's going to change your mind about it Rahul, and I respect you. I just think you're a tad off base on it. Anyway, thats what courts and the legal system are for. It'll get taken care of.
 
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