News Georgiou Section 31 Series officially announced:

[fireproof78]

You can't have a 'character' who enjoyed bragging about murdering masses of people and eating Kelpians suddenly develop a moral conscience as your series lead. It's ridicurous.

I recommend studying more history then, as this has happened with people in the past, and, if humanism is to be believed, human beings are capable of doing so again.

Georgiou may not be a perfect character, but if you want to take on the idea of an evolving humanity this show presents that dramatic possibility. Perhaps humanity, the Federation in particular, is moving away from S31's more draconian tactics, forcing them more to the underground of society, and Georgiou has to deal with this change, in addition to learning to live less as an empress and more as a human.

I was less warm to S31 at the announcement, but I see potential in there. I'm willing to explore that potential.

 

[Gonzo]

Oh, don't mistake my meaning, I never intended to claim that the FBI or CIA (or whatever other real-world organizations you'd care to name) are perfect. They can make mistakes, they can engage in petty bureaucracy, they can do things that are not entirely 100% legal. There's always the risk of that.

The point is, those organizations are supposed to exist. They are specifically authorized by the government. The public knows about them. They have rules that (most of the time) they follow. Those who are investigated and targeted have rights that must be respected. If members of those organizations break the law, they can be brought to justice. This doesn't always happen, of course, but the important thing is, it CAN.

Look, I hate to keep going back to this, but Section 31 just does whatever it feels like. Don't you see how dangerous that is? They have NO rules. None. Not a single one. They literally do whatever they want.

Section 31 is supposed to exist and someone at the top of the Federation/Starfleet Intelligence had to have started it, such well organised and effective organisations don't appear overnight they require backing and tacit support.

Too many are jumping to conclusions about what Section 31 is, we only saw what Bashir was told in DS9 which could just as easily be a lie or half truth to guarantee plausible deniability just like the real world agencies do, essentially Sloan was giving Bashir the villain he needed to see so that he wouldn't dig any deeper or make any more noise, it was very well done.

I appreciate that you don't like Section 31s presence in the Star Trek universe and would prefer that it didn't exist but its about needs rather than wants, that's how the CIA and NSA was founded, not out of want but out of need and necessity, same with the British SIS which then became MI6.

We don't know what rules they have, Sloan was hardly going to list them to Bashir for our benefit, yet he took the time to thank Bashir for being a good man and doing the right thing, even when he was fighting for his life against Bashir there was a part of Sloan that wanted him to succeed.

Of all the aspects of Star Trek its portrayal of Section 31 has been one of the highlights for me and by far the most realistic especially the Founder virus, only matched by Garak's fiendish plan to bring the Romulans into the war, playing fair is all well and good but its useless if the other side wont do the same.

Just consider how dangerous the Founders were at the time, being able to impersonate anyone at any time perfectly and the wars they could have started if they hadn't been found out, never mind the morale damage and paranoia of a population that cant trust each other, or the terrible blow of losing Vulcan to a single Romulan ship from the future in less than an hour.

I am not surprised Section 31 went to such extremes, if they had not done so it could have resulted in stalemate and the destruction of Cardassia and at worst a Dominion final victory.

Perhaps you should wait and see how the backstory and operation of Section 31 is handled before you jump to conclusions based on little more than your own bias and dislike, there is a chance we will get answers and finally understand what Section 31 really is under all the smoke and mirrors, I suspect that the truth is more likely to be closer to my interpretation than yours.

 

[Gonzo]

I recommend studying more history then, as this has happened with people in the past, and, if humanism is to be believed, human beings are capable of doing so again.

Georgiou may not be a perfect character, but if you want to take on the idea of an evolving humanity this show presents that dramatic possibility. Perhaps humanity, the Federation in particular, is moving away from S31's more draconian tactics, forcing them more to the underground of society, and Georgiou has to deal with this change, in addition to learning to live less as an empress and more as a human.

I was less warm to S31 at the announcement, but I see potential in there. I'm willing to explore that potential.

The casting of the main Section 31 character is going to be very important too, it will set the tone for the relationship between Georgiou, her handler and by extension the show itself.

Will she be the outlandish one willing to do anything to achieve her goals with her S31 handler having to make sure she doesn't cause too much harm, or will it be the opposite, the MU Georgiou is who she is due to the environment she was born into and grew up in, for all we know her time in the PU may trigger a positive change in her or alternatively she could go right off the deepend.

We shall have to wait and see.

 

[Garth Rockett]

This is the first announcement of the Kurtzman era that I'm not excited about. I don't feel like Section 31 has been handled very well outside of Deep Space Nine. I'll give it a shot, though. As a limited run (6-8 episode miniseries kind of thing) it could work. I'm not sure if I can see it sustaining across multiple seasons. Maybe they'll prove me wrong.

 

[Gonzo]

This is the first announcement of the Kurtzman era that I'm not excited about. I don't feel like Section 31 has been handled very well outside of Deep Space Nine. I'll give it a shot, though. As a limited run (6-8 episode miniseries kind of thing) it could work. I'm not sure if I can see it sustaining across multiple seasons. Maybe they'll prove me wrong.

Its very early days but at the very least we will get a better understanding of Section 31's operating procedures and maybe some hints as to how high their support goes in the Federation and Starfleet, plus find out if Georgiou's time in the PU has changed her at all for the better or just made her worse.

There are lots of ways a show like that could be scripted, as I mentioned in a previous post it will be interesting to see who else will be case.

 

[Lord Garth]

Since Georgiou's my favorite character -- both versions -- and I've always liked Section 31, I'm looking forward to this and seeing more of Michelle Yeoh in action. I understand if other people don't. This is definitely the first Star Trek series to scream in big neon letters "It's not for everyone".

I have no use for the Ricky Morton style animated series, I have no opinion about the Starfleet Academy series as of yet, I'm dead neutral on the second animated series, and I'm curious about the Picard Series and what they do with it. It's all "pick and choose" as far as I'm concerned.

 

[XCV330]

Well I guess Star Trek 4 going under is a good thing then. But if too much Trek killed the franchise before and too much Trek was just two series going on concurrently (DS9 and VOYAGER) plus the TNG films, what CBS is doing is nuts! We have three official series so far (Discovery, Picard series, Empress Georgiou series), plus if the movie rights revert to CBS we might be getting more Trek films although I wonder what crew they would be based on (The Kelvin-verse, Prime TOS crews are off the table, TNG,VOY, and DS9 crews seem too old, even some members of the ENT crew seem too old.).

In fairness, that too-much-trek included VOY, Insurection, Nemesis and the first two seasons of ENT. by the time they started to right the ship it was too late.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I'm excited for a series staring Michelle Yeoh. I do like the showrunners.

That being said, I'm apprehensive on a show focused on something that feels very anti-Star Trek--Section 31. I've never been a fan of the concept, in DS9 or ENT.

But I'm willing to see what they do with it. I'm willing to see what arc they give Emperor-cum-Section 31 Agent Georgiou. Hopefully, it's one where she has to atone for her past and learn to become someone better, to stand for something nobler. A show that also examines the ethics of such an organization in a peaceful, exploratory organization.

Now that would be good Star Trek that asks some tough questions.

Discovery could easily lead into a recast ToS show unless they stick with following the Enterprise before Kirk takes over, if that happens we are talking reboot territory.

Its a slippery slope.

A TOS reboot on TV is bound to happen sooner or later.

 

[BurnhamAll]

Good luck with that.

If you don't want to take my advice, and be someone who operates like a mature intelligent adult, that's certainly your prerogative.

 

[Lord Garth]

A TOS reboot on TV is bound to happen sooner or later.

That depends. If they reboot the Star Trek movies again, the most likely scenario, then they won't do another version of TOS on TV. If we see a TV series about Kirk's Enterprise, then that means Paramount would've given up on doing any further Star Trek movies.

 

[Kane_Steel]

If you don't want to take my advice, and be someone who operates like a mature intelligent adult, that's certainly your prerogative.

That would be the pot calling the kettle black.

That depends. If they reboot the Star Trek movies again, the most likely scenario, then they won't do another version of TOS on TV. If we see a TV series about Kirk's Enterprise, then that means Paramount would've given up on doing any further Star Trek movies.

In many ways, Discovery is the TOS reboot. If they want to force out a season 3, Kirk is probably coming.

 

[Kane_Steel]

I recommend studying more history then, as this has happened with people in the past, and, if humanism is to be believed, human beings are capable of doing so again.

Georgiou may not be a perfect character, but if you want to take on the idea of an evolving humanity this show presents that dramatic possibility. Perhaps humanity, the Federation in particular, is moving away from S31's more draconian tactics, forcing them more to the underground of society, and Georgiou has to deal with this change, in addition to learning to live less as an empress and more as a human.

I was less warm to S31 at the announcement, but I see potential in there. I'm willing to explore that potential.

Georgiou is Hitler in space basically. A genocidal racist, who actually goes to the next level and even eats her subjects and has slaves.

This is the 'character' they are trying to glorify and redeem? Lol. That's way beyond the abilities of these showrunners and writers.

 

[Lord Garth]

In many ways, Discovery is the TOS reboot. If they want to force out a season 3, Kirk is probably coming.

Whatever Discovery is or isn't, I'm sure Paramount still wants to reserve the adventures of Kirk's Enterprise for the Big Screen. I'd bet on a re-rebooted film before I would a CBS All Access Series.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

In many ways, Discovery is the TOS reboot. If they want to force out a season 3, Kirk is probably coming.

Oh, I've been predicting Kirk for DISCO season 3 for a while now.

 

[Gonzo]

I'm excited for a series staring Michelle Yeoh. I do like the showrunners.

That being said, I'm apprehensive on a show focused on something that feels very anti-Star Trek--Section 31. I've never been a fan of the concept, in DS9 or ENT.

But I'm willing to see what they do with it. I'm willing to see what arc they give Emperor-cum-Section 31 Agent Georgiou. Hopefully, it's one where she has to atone for her past and learn to become someone better, to stand for something nobler. A show that also examines the ethics of such an organization in a peaceful, exploratory organization.

Now that would be good Star Trek that asks some tough questions.




A TOS reboot on TV is bound to happen sooner or later.

Star Trek Discovery is the perfect lead in for a reboot of ToS, I think we may see it sooner rather than later if CBS continues on its current trajectory.

The shelving of Star Trek 4 could be Paramount throwing in the towel for now and being open to a TV show instead, casting of Kirk, Scotty and Bones et al will be critical though and we shall have to see how the current recast Spock turns out as well first.

 

[arch101]

We have gotta be heading towards a Trek online channel. 2 more series announced in the last 6 months? I think it's great. Let the movies go. Let SW compete with Goofy on Disney. Trek TV is coming, I say!

 

[Mudd]

This comment from elsewhere sums the entire project up nicely:

...we're talking about a show built around a one-dimensional character from a fan service resurrection of an alternate universe

 

[The Overlord]

See here on Facebook:

This has been rumored. Still seems like a very, very bad idea to me.

Yeah, I am kinda the same way. The Empress is a psychopath, that's fine as a villain you do not have to get emotionally invested in, but an entire series around that? Is she going to eat puppies every week?

And Section 31 works better in small doses, not seeing them all the time. They are fine villains, they can contrast the more idealistic Star Fleet personnel, but I am not sure I would want to see them commit war crimes in the name of the greater good all the time.

 

[The Old Mixer]

If you don't want to take my advice, and be someone who operates like a mature intelligent adult, that's certainly your prerogative.

I just advised you in another thread to dial back the personal commentary about other posters. More of this type of behavior will earn you a formal Warning.

That would be the pot calling the kettle black.

And I'd ask you not to respond in kind.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I suggested on the last Section 31 thread that there are essentially two different Section 31, the offical Section 31, which was formed as the 'deniable operations' section within Earth Starfleet, and later transferred over to Starfleet Intelligence after the UFP was formed. This is the version of 31 that appeared in ENT, Beyond, and Discovery/'The Georgiou Show' and is similar to CIA Special Activities Division (and potentially DEVGRU/Delta) who's missions include:

As the action arm of the CIA's Directorate of Operations, SAD/SOG conducts direct action missions such as raids, ambushes, sabotage, targeted killings[11][12][13] and unconventional warfare (e.g., training and leading guerrilla and military units of other countries in combat). SAD/SOG also conducts special reconnaissance that can be either military or intelligence driven and is carried out by Paramilitary Officers (also called Paramilitary Operatives or Paramilitary Operations Officers) when in "non-permissive environments". Paramilitary Operations Officers are also fully trained case officers (i.e., "spy handlers") and as such conduct clandestine human intelligence (HUMINT) operations throughout the world.[14]

The political action group within SAD conducts the deniable psychological operations, also known as black propaganda, as well as "covert influence" to effect political change in other countries as part of United States foreign policy.[1] Covert intervention in foreign elections is the most significant form of SAD's political action. This involves financial support for favored candidates, media guidance, technical support for public relations, get-out-the-vote or political organizing efforts, legal expertise, advertising campaigns, assistance with poll-watching, and other means of direct action. Policy decisions are influenced by agents, such as subverted officials of the country, to make decisions in their official capacity that are in the furtherance of US policy aims. In addition, mechanisms for forming and developing opinions involve the covert use of propaganda.[15]


On the other hand, the version of Section 31 that we mostly if not excusively saw in DS9 was a small cadre of rogue agents, led by Sloane, possibly triggered by the assassination of Vice Admiral Fujisaki, who fooled certain Starfleet officers (Ross, Bashir) into following their agenda for the 'greater good'.