My map of the Federation, post-Nemesis

[Henoch]

It's one of best looking maps to date; maybe the best. My list of love items:

• Shapes, sizes and positions of the various empires
• Circular distance map markers starting from Earth
• Sector designators and clockwise spiral-out pattern starting at Earth
• Color codes (purple/yellow/blue) for different eras of space exploration, again centered around Earth
• Discontinuous empires and neutral/off-limit zones (over/under borders can explain some of them, too)
• Grouping of several star/planet/starbase locations based on episode references (I only did a TOS spot check)

I couldn't tell if you overlaid your map with any real stars (at least those closest to Earth) and their real locations, or is everything is fictional (like the shows)?

Discussion: Based on the extent of the TOS travels, you only go laterally out ~250 lys from Earth, and this may be correct, but I get the feeling that they may be double that far out (and I realize there is up/down vector distances). Maybe the other empire borders can stay where they are, but the explored TOS stars/planets can "squeeze" out past them where they can into unclaimed space. Or maybe, exploration has progressed more up/down cylindrically than laterally/spherically from Earth (which is very near the centerline of the galactic plane.) Now that I think about, a tall cylindrical shape or an hourglass shape makes more sense since the Federation would bump up against the other empires, so, the only way to go is up/down. Similar on how countries define air-space where everything up to some altitude is mine, maybe empires define space-space as everything straight up and down through the galactic plane is mine. The dimension of the Federation would be an irregular-shaped ~250 lys in radius by 1000 lys in total height (thickness of the galactic plane). "Squeezing out" can still occur with the border going up/down to the edge of the galaxy. And this is why a 2D map is good enough and your 25 lys sector size works! (I ramble but I love this.)

New info keeps coming with the advent of Discovery (Prequel/TOS era) and now with the new Picard series (TNG/post TNG era). You can probably keep refining it, forever, or until you go crazy, or both.

Of course, these are only the on-screen stars/planets/starbases. There could be a dozen or so more ships during each era making an equal amount of discoveries, so, it may be a lot more densely populated than any of us can image.

Don't Stop and Good Luck!

 

[Belz...]

It's one of best looking maps to date; maybe the best.

Thanks!

Discussion: Based on the extent of the TOS travels, you only go laterally out ~250 lys from Earth, and this may be correct, but I get the feeling that they may be double that far out (and I realize there is up/down vector distances). Maybe the other empire borders can stay where they are, but the explored TOS stars/planets can "squeeze" out past them where they can into unclaimed space.

It's a bit difficult to get a feel of how large the Federation really is in any given era. As usual the problem is inconsistency by the writers of the show. In "That Which Survives" the Enterprise is flung about 1000 light years away from the planet, and Spock orders it to return at warp 8, which would take it two years according to the TOS speed charts. If you watch Arena, there's no way the Enterprise can maintain Warp 8 for any length of time. A few minutes? Hours, maybe. It's an unsafe speed.

The TNG speed chart makes warp 9 about 1500c, and the Federation is 10,000 ly wide. How do they expect the government to manage a space that large? It takes 6 years of uninterrupted warp 9 travel to get from one end to the other. There's no way you can administrate this. Clearly that's way too large. And clearly, in my mind, the warp chart is far too slow.

So one has to compromise. The map isn't 100% accurate with the show. I ignored sector numbers completely when making the map (though I was fortunate enough that the Selebi asteroid field and the Briar Patch are in their exact sectors (396 and 441, respectively). I also ignored distances except in some specific instances, and I have my own warp chart, in part because having a warp 10 infinite speed when your lead ship can already do warp 9.6 is not very helpful for future developments (hence why Voyager's top speed is 9.975). There's just no way to make it completely consistent because the show isn't. I guess an A.I. could do it, maybe, if working in 3D.

Anyway thanks again for your kind words, and indeed this is an unending fan's job, keeping things like this up to date. But it's fun, so why not?

 

[DEWLine]

I am so looking forward to seeing how this changes once the GAIA DR2 data gets into enough Trekkish cartographers' hands...and then there's going to be the new stuff from Discovery, the Picard Project, Lower Decks...

 

[Belz...]

its all out.of place in what is considered canon, but a nice job nonetheless

I'm sorry, there is no canon map of Star Trek. There is absolutely nothing official about how the Trek universe is arranged, except zoomed-in maps that give either little information or are contradictory with stated information.

The best example is the version here
http://www.startrekmap.com/ufpmain.html

Sorry again, that's not the best one I've seen. The Klingon and Cardassian territories are supposed to be really close or to actually touch. Also the Dominion is supposed to be a credible threat to the Romulans from the Cardassian territory. None of that is evident in that map. In addition, plenty of TOS locations are way out on the map which is exactly one of the other problems with fan maps that I wanted to try to correct. It's like the Federation hasn't expanded in a hundred years.

 

[Henoch]

It's a bit difficult to get a feel of how large the Federation really is in any given era. As usual the problem is inconsistency by the writers of the show. In "That Which Survives" the Enterprise is flung about 1000 light years away from the planet, and Spock orders it to return at warp 8, which would take it two years according to the TOS speed charts. If you watch Arena, there's no way the Enterprise can maintain Warp 8 for any length of time. A few minutes? Hours, maybe. It's an unsafe speed.

The TNG speed chart makes warp 9 about 1500c, and the Federation is 10,000 ly wide. How do they expect the government to manage a space that large? It takes 6 years of uninterrupted warp 9 travel to get from one end to the other. There's no way you can administrate this. Clearly that's way too large. And clearly, in my mind, the warp chart is far too slow.

Yah, instead of 1000 lys, maybe 10 lys or something vague like "far" would have been better. I agree that the warp charts are baloney . I have two overlapping technobabble theories on how warp factors result in variable and much higher speeds using the Cochrane Variable theory (my own warp chart), and an additional theory that results in reverse time dilation at very high warp factors (coming to Trek Tech soon). BLSSDWLF came up with an excellent warp diagram based on empirical TOS episode data that showed incredible speeds (>500,000 c) at high warp factors in interstellar space.
As to the TOS Enterprise safety maintaining warp 8, the warp engines have been updated between Season 1 "Arena" where warp 8 was achieved with some danger, and the start of Season 3 where the Enterprise was routinely hitting warp 9. On the return trip, Spock had the Enterprise at warp 8.4 for hours (the return trip was to take 11.37 hours at warp 8.4). Additionally, due to Losira's sabotage, the Enterprise was accelerating out of control for ~15 minutes and hit warp 14.1 before it was brought under control. They made up a lot of distance during that short time.

The best example is the version here
http://www.startrekmap.com/ufpmain.html

Thanks. I'm starting to look into it.

 

[Belz...]

Thanks. I'm starting to look into it.

It looks good, and it's not worse than most maps out there, but as stated above it shares their major issues.

 

[Belz...]

you are not comprehending that because cardassian and the klingon empire dont "touch" on that map means in dont happen.
You must remember space is not like a planet map , there is depth in space , its not 2 dimensional.

I know all that but it doesn't make a difference: The Klingons have had conflicts with the Cardassians for years, and during DS9 they send an invasion fleet to fight the Cardassians. Did you think about logistics? The Klingons need supply lines (As an illustration: you can use a plane on Earth to bypass the 2D problems of a map, but you still need supply lines, and you still need to hold conquered territory.) And do you think the Federation would not make a fuss about a large Klingon force just crossing their entire territory? In both cases that means the territories must be at least reasonably close. Otherwise the Klingons wouldn't even bother, since the point was to expand the empire.

If you really wanted to you could flaws in every single map ever created

I wouldn't complain if they were fairly accurate, even if imperfect.

Of course no real map exists cos trek is all made up

That is illogical. You can make a map of a made up universe. Star Trek just doesn't have one.

, the point I am making is I work of the maps released as official trek charts and that link is the nearest we have to those star charts, the maps used in discovery and other shows.

True, but as stated those maps have important problems that I seek to solve.

My comments are not a reflection on your good work

I didn't take them as such and I thank you for your comments. However I have taken all of that into consideration.

 

[DEWLine]

If Discovery is cribbing from Star Charts - and they've been shown on-air doing that in several episodes of their first season - that means that there is a canonical map at least partway built now.

 

[DEWLine]

50 Mb‽‽‽

(I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, given the nature of the work...)

 

[Belz...]

again you missed my point completely

I assure you that I understand your point perfectly. In fact, it'd be hard not to, since it's so trivial.

What I'm telling you is that you are _wrong_. You can present a 2D map so that territories that touch in 3D, or pass over or under another, are shown as such. It's a bit harder but it can be done. If that's the situation, then people with far better tools for map making than I would've done so, but have not. Hence, their maps are flawed.

Star Trek has always shown its simplistic maps in 2D anyway, and so have fans and myself. It's just easier on the brain.

Using your own argument then, your map is wrong since romulus and cardassia are suppose to have a border as mentioned in DS9.

I've already mentioned that. And no, they're not necessarily supposed to have a border; not until the Dominion conquers part of the Federation. But they have to be fairly close so that can happen. Again I've addressed that in my map. And yes, as you said, it isn't perfect either.

 

[Belz...]

The link I posted earlier is based on those star trek charts.
I dont know if its official or fan created though.

Definitely not official.

The closest thing to an official ST map is this one. And even it has the same issues I talked about: too distant territories, a Federation that doesn't really expand in a century, locations in adjacent episodes that are all over the place, etc. It's still the best map out there, and it's no surprise that fans and even CBS are using it as the basis for their work.

I have been working on a map on and off for a few months, based on the star trek charts, including the lost ships, relay stations, outposts, deep space stations, nebulas, planets, arrays, alien homeworlds etc.
Currently it measures 13295 by 7478 and is over 50mb

Ouch, that must be some complex thing to behold!

 

[Belz...]

thing is belz even if theperfect map could be created and all it takes is one comment in a star trek episode to fuck up everything again.....lol

Story of my life, man.

Fortunately for me, my map mostly just considers TOS/TNG and unfortunately we're not getting more of those.

But this time I've layered the map so that it'll be easy to update. In fact I've surreptitiously updated it a few times since posting it this morning. I moved a couple of things and will probably adjust it a few more times.

An example of something that bothers me about other maps just popped in my head. Please bear with me:

TWOK has the Enterprise leave a training exercise near Earth to go to Regula I. Regula I's right in the Mutara sector, and most maps put that past the Gorn and Klingon territories. So the Enterprise is the 'only' ship that can reach there? A few years prior, Cestus III, which is near the Gorn, was at the very edge of the Federation, and now the Enterprise just leisurely sails there at warp 5? I always figured it should be closer. Also, Ceti Alpha should be in the area. Why would the Reliant look for a lifeless world half a quadrant away? Surely there are plenty of lifeless planetoids nearby. And Ceti Alpha must be rather near Earth, given that Khan was found in the area in a sleeper ship.

It's just those small details that my brain just can't accept.

And I still cannot get the sheliak in cos they are so far out.

I agree with you. Some of the locations are way too far out, and everything else is way too close to Sol. "Boldly go where no one has gone before" my eye. They're spending most of their time in the backyard.

 

[Belz...]

when creating my map I was watching every episode og TNG in its order to see where they were in relation to what is stated on the maps, and surprisingly it was accurate.

Yes, the "pathway" is important to me as well. What frustrates me about most fan maps is how the locations seem seeded at random. Starfleet must really be bonkers to send the Enterprise left and right like this. It seems much more logical to send the Enterprise to nearby locations and only rarely asking it to travel a long way at high warp.

however one season ends and they are near tholian space, new season starts with them near zakdorn which is supposedly further north than romulus, and then stays in canon, so can oly presume that distance was traveled between seasons.

I can only presume the people who made the map didn't really have a look at the episodes.

I do appreciate the thought and work you did put in, which for me makes yours a quality job as some people have stuff all over the place. with no rhyme or reason

Thank you, and I will try to improve it over time, thanks to comments like your own.

 

[Timo]

Yes, the "pathway" is important to me as well. What frustrates me about most fan maps is how the locations seem seeded at random. Starfleet must really be bonkers to send the Enterprise left and right like this. It seems much more logical to send the Enterprise to nearby locations and only rarely asking it to travel a long way at high warp.

The odd thing is that we know for a fact that Picard is being sent left and right, and does more high warp than most skippers.

Or perhaps not so odd, if we consider his is the one and only Federation Flagship. Whenever there's political trouble, Picard gets sent - and the UFP is surrounded by enemies on all sides, with potential allies lurking beyond the borders rather than nicely clustered at a specific spot.

Lesser ships and skippers could be assigned patrol areas. It's rather more odd, then, that Kirk seemed to do this same mad jitterbug with his run-of-the-mill ship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Finngle Bells]

Looks good, though I thought Klingons and Romulans shared a border as shown in Redemption??

As for that Kirk comment above...was it mentioned that Kirk's dad was a starfleet officer prior to Nu-Trek, perhaps had made the Admiralty before Kirk took command of the Enterprise?

 

[Belz...]

The odd thing is that we know for a fact that Picard is being sent left and right, and does more high warp than most skippers.

Is that a fact? I'm not aware of that. Could you post a quote or some relevant info from canon? Or is that your interpretation?

Or perhaps not so odd, if we consider his is the one and only Federation Flagship. Whenever there's political trouble, Picard gets sent - and the UFP is surrounded by enemies on all sides, with potential allies lurking beyond the borders rather than nicely clustered at a specific spot.

The issue with that is that either the Federation's really small, or ships are really fast, which is the same thing, and as I said above it means you're always close to Earth and Romulus and Qo'Nos and all, and it doesn't make Trek feel like you're really exploring and going boldly. The UFP taking 6 years to cross is ridiculous, but it taking 2 days to cross is equally silly.

Lesser ships and skippers could be assigned patrol areas. It's rather more odd, then, that Kirk seemed to do this same mad jitterbug with his run-of-the-mill ship.

Still, Picard isn't the only good captain and negociator. If it takes him 3 months to get from A to B wouldn't it make more sense to send someone closer? Sure, it's just an excuse to get the main characters there, but I wish they didn't send the big E back to the same places over and over. Go 2 seasons without seeing the Klingons or Romulans, maybe.

Looks good, though I thought Klingons and Romulans shared a border as shown in Redemption??

Yes, absolutely. I cheated a bit there to allow the Federation to have some isolated areas beyond the K-R border. The two are really close, though, so I figured it was good enough. The map I linked to earlier has that isolated territory, but UFP ships have to cross Klingon space to get there. I'm not sure how that works with the treaty and all.

 

[psCargile]

Another approach breaks the paradigm that all space within this "border" is our territory. If you take a member world and its colonies and depict it's local claims as a sphere or blob, and do that with all of them, your actual territory will have voids and routes where the blobs do not meet. Those voids may not be your territory, and maybe light-years in measurement. And maybe allow an empire on one side of you to have contact with the empire on the other side without violating your border. Space is big. It allows for this.

 

[Belz...]

Another approach breaks the paradigm that all space within this "border" is our territory. If you take a member world and its colonies and depict it's local claims as a sphere or blob, and do that with all of them, your actual territory will have voids and routes where the blobs do not meet. Those voids may not be your territory, and maybe light-years in measurement. And maybe allow an empire on one side of you to have contact with the empire on the other side without violating your border.

That's indeed a good approach, though it is hard to do on a map with hundreds of locations or member worlds.

The way I've dealt with this, which doesn't show on the map, is that the Federation assumes that every system within their sphere of influence is under their protection, and part of their territory. That's caused more than a few tensions with planets that want nothing to do with the UFP or who find that, once they develop warp drive or head out of their system, suddenly they have to negociate with Earth as if they automatically have a prior engagement. Kind of like if you're born in a country you're bound by its laws whether you want to or not.

Space is big.

Yes, and sci-fi writers rarely realise how big, or what that entails.

 

[Finngle Bells]

Yes. I always love how when we see a shuttlecraft run into trouble and a planet is right there for them to land on...

 

[Belz...]

Ok I've updated the map a bit. Betreka and Gamma Eridon are now properly placed, and I've tried to show a bit of the third dimension by having the Klingon territory pass above or below the Tholian and Federation ones. That last bit now means that the Klingon-Romulan border is now evident on the map. Thanks for the comment, gazomg.

See? I told you that you could show 3D on a 2D map.

Yes. I always love how when we see a shuttlecraft run into trouble and a planet is right there for them to land on...

My favourite bit is at the start of the first reboot. The Kelvin officer asks Starfleet if the gigantic space storm they're seeing could be Klingon in origin, and gets a response that is negative because, according to them, they're 75,000km from the Klingon border. That's spitting distance. By that I mean, if someone opens a window and spits towards Klingon territory, there's a non-zero chance that a Klingon will get it in the face within a few months. That's nonsense! With the Klingon war looming, you'd think they'd stay at least 75,000 AU from the border.