Star Trek and Cannon... darned confusing!

[johnnybear]

This is so true! Some people do act like it's a true vision of a future history and everything in it must be adhered to correctly! Now we know it's a televisions how with stories written by authors and script-editors and acted by experienced thespians! But sometimes it is annoying when new producers come onto the show, ignore what's been before and then try and tell us something totally different from what we know! This happens in most TV shows and we can nit pick as much as we like about it but it would be nice if they took the time to try and fit in with continuity! One of the biggest problems is that they keep setting their new shows before TOS and making it look more advanced than even TNG!!! Why not avoid this type of thing by setting your new show in the future of the series and that way stop the arguments!
JB

 

[Tuskin38]

I don't care what people think is canon, or what they think is in what timeline/universe, I just don't like it when they treat it like a fact and not just their opinion.

and making it look more advanced than even TNG!!!

None of the prequel series have looked more advanced then TNG.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

One of the biggest problems is that they keep setting their new shows before TOS and making it look more advanced than even TNG!!! Why not avoid this type of thing by setting your new show in the future of the series and that way stop the arguments!

Because it doesn't need to be a problem? I would prefer a vision of the future that accurately reflects our knowledge of science and technology, which allows it to remain relevant rather than confined to being an alternative vision of reality, if not outright fantasy.

 

[Nerys Myk]

One of the biggest problems is that they keep setting their new shows before TOS and making it look more advanced than even TNG!!! Why not avoid this type of thing by setting your new show in the future of the series and that way stop the arguments!
JB

But they really haven't. ENT and DISCO tech really isn't all that more advanced than TOS. They may introduce things we haven't seen before or present the tech in a new way using current SFX, but the ship will always fly at the speed of plot and the tech will always operate at the need of the plot. In fact TNG wasn't all that more advanced than TOS. They just upped a few warp numbers but the tech was the same stuff TOS had been using. Even holodecks were introduced in TAS.

The TOS era is still the most well known, why avoid that rich milieu because some people can't accept the fact fiction is malleable and mutable?

 

[Vger23]

Reading this thread has been frustrating, because so many of you have already said / responded exactly as I would.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's like comic books. There's a reason Clark doesn't pound out his stories on an old Smith-Corona anymore and Lois doesn't wear pillbox hats.

Long-running franchises evolve over time just as their audiences do. Nothing is set in stone.

 

[johnnybear]

Yes, but Clark Kent doesn't say it's still 1958 either does he!
JB

 

[Greg Cox]

Yes, but Clark Kent doesn't say it's still 1958 either does he!
JB

Then again, SUPERMAN takes place in the real world. Not an imaginary future.

Typewriters and pillbox hats were real. "Starfleet" and "The Federation" are not. So a 2018 version of Starfleet doesn't necessarily need to be "historically accurate" or whatever, just for continuity's sake.

 

[Tosk]

It's like comic books. There's a reason Clark doesn't pound out his stories on an old Smith-Corona anymore and Lois doesn't wear pillbox hats.

It's not really the same as comic books. They have a sliding timeframe, where it is always pretty much "now". James Bond is like that, but Trek isn't.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's not really the same as comic books. They have a sliding timeframe, where it is always pretty much "now". James Bond is like that, but Trek isn't.

I don't know. The practical realities are the same. How do you keep a vintage franchise from looking dated to modern audiences? You keep up with the times and the expectations of the present generation.

If that means fudging the "canon" sometimes, so be it.

 

[Tuvix5675]

Star Trek continuity has been changed a few times so there is no actual order! ENT had the Future Guy interfere with established history and disrupt the timeline so maybe TOS doesn't happen like we know it did or ENT like DSC is set in another universe?
JB

The way I see it, Star Trek canon was pretty consistent from TOS-NEM, ENT changed a few things, the NX-01 became the first Starship named Enterprise, not the NCC-1701, as it had been originally, first contact with the Klingons and Ferengi was speeded up, etc., now with Discovery we have new planets, species, starship classes, etc. So canon is being revised again. Incidentally, I concur with your interpretation of the temporal cold war, because of the Suliban history was changed from what had originally led to TOS, however, Daniels and his time police were supposed to protect essential things from the timeline leading into TOS and beyond. The Star Trek Encyclopedia treats the events of ENT as part of the same timeline as TOS-NEM.

 

[Vger23]

The way I see it, Star Trek canon was pretty consistent from TOS-NEM, ENT changed a few things, the NX-01 became the first Starship named Enterprise, not the NCC-1701, as it had been originally, first contact with the Klingons and Ferengi was speeded up, etc., now with Discovery we have new planets, species, starship classes, etc. So canon is being revised again. Incidentally, I concur with your interpretation of the temporal cold war, because of the Suliban history was changed from what had originally led to TOS, however, Daniels and his time police were supposed to protect essential things from the timeline leading into TOS and beyond. The Star Trek Encyclopedia treats the events of ENT as part of the same timeline as TOS-NEM.

I don't think that adding new planets, species, and ship classes is really a revision of canon or continuity, though. Admittedly, TOS was a very limited view of the 23rd century. What you see in DSC is simply expanding upon it...not changing it.

 

[Tuskin38]

now with Discovery we have new planets, species, starship classes, etc. So canon is being revised again.

That’s not revising canon, that’s adding to it.

Just because we didn’t see that stuff in TOS doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

According to TOS, there were only 12 Connies in the 2260s, so I doubt the Connie was the the only ship class in service. That wouldn’t be enough to patrol Federation space.

 

[Greg Cox]

I can't remember. Did ENTERPRISE ever explain why we didn't see the Suliban or the Xindi running around in Kirk's time?

(Besides the obvious, real-life reason that they hadn't been invented yet.)

 

[Gov Kodos]

I can't remember. Did ENTERPRISE ever explain why we didn't see the Suliban or the Xindi running around in Kirk's time?

(Besides the obvious, real-life reason that they hadn't been invented yet.)

Not that I recall, but all those parallel Earth cultures in TOS might have been displaced from their realities into TOS by the time war.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The way I see it, Star Trek canon was pretty consistent from TOS-NEM, ENT changed a few things, the NX-01 became the first Starship named Enterprise, not the NCC-1701, as it had been originally,

When was it ever stated that the 1701 was the first starship called "Enterprise"? The XCV 330 might hold that honor.

as it had been originally, first contact with the Klingons and Ferengi was speeded up, etc.,

There was no hard date for first contact with the Klingons or the Ferengi for that matter.

Discovery we have new planets, species, starship classes, etc. So canon is being revised again.

And this is bad why? Should all stories set in the 23rd Century be limited to ships, planets and species appearing in TOS?

 

[at Quark's]

Canon to the left of them
Canon to the right of them
Canon in front of then
Volleys and queries.
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six series.

 

[Greg Cox]

Canon to the left of them
Canon to the right of them
Canon in front of then
Volleys and queries.
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six series.

Seven if you count the Saturday morning cartoon.

 

[The Wormhole]

That's like saying only the guy who first played Romeo onstage in the 1600's can ever play Romeo.

Well, it sure was a mistake when they replaced the guy who played Juliet with a girl.

Come at me, bro.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, it sure was a mistake when they replaced the guy who played Juliet with a girl.

Come at me, bro.

Women, always taking men's jobs!!!!!!