Hey except for data dying I like nemesis. I will admit it did need improvements
Disco's version of TOS/TAS: Differences
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
No they are not. That's business. But, listening to fans isn't good business either. There needs to be a balanced approach to it for correction and appeal. But, that doesn't mean the fans are "owed" anything by an artist beyond their work. If I don't like an artist's work I don't buy it. And then it fails. That's business.
Sorry, I don't see the issue here. I know it sounds incredibly cold and calloused but I don't expect anything out of an artist beyond entertainment. I certainly don't think they owe me something because I bought their work. That's the relationship.
Kurtzman comes on here. "What do you want?" We're all going to have different answers. My answer: "Take whatever Rick Berman did and either ignore it or do the exact opposite."
Someone else will have a different answer. And someone else will have yet another answer still. So then it becomes a selection process. "Who do we please?" Designing by committee is a mistake. Do what you want and live or die by it. If they die by it, someone else will do something else.
Someone else will have a different answer. And someone else will have yet another answer still. So then it becomes a selection process. "Who do we please?" Designing by committee is a mistake. Do what you want and live or die by it. If they die by it, someone else will do something else.
And now that I think about it I have been too much to one side I do not believe that the fans are owed anything but I just feel like they shouldn’t be alienated All the time. And I will admit at first I felt alienated by discovery, but now I’ve actually come to like it. But I’ll say this I don’t feel that way when I first watched the other shows .
And without fans, the NFL has no money either. But, last time I checked, Belichick ain't asking the fans what he should run on 3rd and 3 in the red zone. Fans watch, players play, coaches coach.
Same with the franchise. Fans watch. That's their role. Producers produce. That's their role. Once fans start believing that they own the franchise or its direction, and the producers start listening, the franchise is supremely fucked. If enough fans stop showing up, the results sepeak for themselves, but I hope and pray that the writers and producers NEVER start listapening to the fans about what to produce.
One only needs to read the various threads on this board about "what would YOU do with the franchise?" to know two things:
1. The fans are not unified in ANYTHING in terms of their belief of what makes good Trek...so trying to please the fans is a fool's errand.
2. The fans have a lot of really lame ideas. A lot. Of lame. Ideas.
Never said they should do all their ideas or completely listen to them but every once in a while what’s wrong with that.
I've been reading "So Say We All" and this was literally Ron Moore's and David Eick's foundational premise for nuBSG. They were so burnt out on The Template of Berman-era Trek, they basically created the entire show as a f-u. Fascinating read.
I can appreciate that. I felt extremely alienated by TNG when I first watched it and it took me a long time to warm up to it. Same thing with TMP. I don't enjoy them like I do other Trek's but they don't put me off either.
I genuinely don't feel like shows set out to alienate fans. And, it's clear that some fan comments have been taken to heart across this franchise. But, that doesn't mean fans have very good ideas or should be listened to whole cloth.
The funny thing I get about this is the fact that fan productions have long been darker and grittier in tone and presentation. So, when Discovery does that a little bit it's wrong. It makes no sense!
Really I’ve always wondered how they came out with new Battlestar Galactica. Just seem out of the blue
And sometimes coaches make shitty calls on 3rd and 3. That doesn't mean every onc in a while I'm going to ask the crowd if we should run off tackle or throw the shallow cross. My job is to coach, fuck ups and all. Thats how life works.
I don't ever want to see Star Trek by fan committee. That would be an unmitigated disaster. Again, one look around here is all it takes to see that.
It's a fascinating read. A lot in there on Ron Moore's Star Trek experiences, particularly on Voyager and how much he hated being boxed in by Berman Trek format. He makes no bones in saying that the entire reason they made BSG was a revolt against that style of sci-if television. If you watch BSG through that lens, you quickly see how it is almost precisely the opposite of 90's era Trek in every possible way: Characters, visual style, designs, storytelling, themes...it's amazing.
I kinda felt the same at the end of it's all. It's why I like the differences of DSC so much. It was time for an overhaul.
I will say I do get tired of Rick Berman style just like I also sometimes get tired of the always nearly always peaceful TNG. And yes I have watched the new battlestar Galactica and I must say I do enjoy it.
And you know what now that I think about it allowing the fancy decide it’s kind like letting people telling you what to do. And you know what that is not my personality I do not believe people get to decide what you can and cannot do so you know what I completely recant everything I said. The fan should not have control over any production of Star Trek. Although I think we can all agree that the producers definitely made some stupid ideas themselves.
Of course. The solution isn't to hand it over to fans. In fact, the more successful films have shown that people with less familiarity with the product do pretty good jobs, like Nick Meyer on TWOK or Abrams with ST 09.
You’re right I never thought about that. Nick Mayer did an awesome job with the wrath of Khan .
He did. I highly recommend his book "View from the Bridge" regarding his process of making that film. Very interesting read.
Will do I’ve got to check that out. I guess the fact that the final frontier which was directed by William Shatner was pretty much a failure kinda helps support that point
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