Spock as a mystic in Season 2

[Tuvix5675]

Although we have yet to see fully how Spock will be portrayed in STD S2, from the trailers that have been released so far, we can see the traces of an outline. It appears the character of Spock will be portrayed as a mystic-the character claims to have apocalyptic visions from the red angel being and believes these visions. This is a departure from how the character came to be regarded in S1 of TOS as a logical scientist, sure we are supposedly seeing the character before he "evolved" into the Spock of S1 of TOS, though I'm not really sure the writers are intending to show us how Spock evolved into the TOS Spock, this seems like a radical re-imagining of the character. We are seeing the character 3 years after "the Cage" but something like 7 years before WNMHGB which is where the character begins to emerge as the logician we adore. Does this new interpretation of Spock trouble anyone?

 

[fireproof78]

Not so far. I'll be more troubled when I see the show, depending on how Spock is presented.

Remember, Vulcans still have a highly ritualized society, and Spock has been actives in those rituals before, so the idea that he is taking on a little more of the mystic role should not be as alarming if we consider the whole of Vulcan society. Spock has often been presented as the wise adviser role, and often mystics fit that role too in story telling. It is a rather natural progression for such a role.

 

[Mage]

Does this new interpretation of Spock trouble anyone?

I don't want to be rude, but your entire post is pure speculation. You talk about traces of an outline, which are only there if you want them to be. And then you ask if people are troubled by something that is pure speculation......

 

[Tuvix5675]

I don't want to be rude, but your entire post is pure speculation. You talk about traces of an outline, which are only there if you want them to be. And then you ask if people are troubled by something that is pure speculation......

How is it speculation? The description I gave is based on the clips of Spock presented in the STD S2 trailers, have you seen the trailers?

 

[DaveyNY]

It seems to me he's more like how he will be with the VGER Probe.
Intense curiosity brought on by some kind of psychic connection to whatever is out there.
Not really as a Mystic.

He's kinda vague with Pike about it like he was with Kirk at first.

 

[Mage]

How is it speculation? The description I gave is based on the clips of Spock presented in the STD S2 trailers, have you seen the trailers?

Yes, I have. We've seen somewhere around 60 seconds, maybe less, with Spock. And you're saying what sort of person this version of Spock will be like, after that? That's speculation mate.

 

[BillJ]

It seems to me he's more like how he will be with the VGER Probe.
Intense curiosity brought on by some kind of psychic connection to whatever is out there.

I feel similarly, unfortunately, we've already seen these particular plot points in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I hope I'm wrong and they are actually going to attempt something new with the character, but I doubt it.

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, Vulcan Mysticism is a thing according to TSFS, so not really seeing the problem here.

 

[F. King Daniel]

New Trek, new Spock. If they want a radically different version of Spock, they'll do it. If fans want it explained how a radically different version of Spock fits with the TOS version X number of years later, you'll have vague assurances it's PRIME UNIVERSE and nothing else.

Personally, I love the idea Disco's version of Spock had a crazy emo mystic phase which involved him being incarcerated in a mental health facility.

 

[dahj]

He was totally into hippies on the original series, how is this a surprise?

 

[BillJ]

Well, Vulcan Mysticism is a thing according to TSFS, so not really seeing the problem here.

Never much saw Spock as a mystic character, so it misses on that count for me. Then potential replay of TMP plot points, is also a miss for me. Maybe Peck can make it work to keep strike three from being called?

 

[Tuskin38]

If fans want it explained how a radically different version of Spock fits with the TOS version X number of years later

They said this season is doing that. Explaining how Spock we know became how he is in TOS.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Although we have yet to see fully how Spock will be portrayed in STD S2, from the trailers that have been released so far, we can see the traces of an outline. It appears the character of Spock will be portrayed as a mystic-the character claims to have apocalyptic visions from the red angel being and believes these visions. This is a departure from how the character came to be regarded in S1 of TOS as a logical scientist, sure we are supposedly seeing the character before he "evolved" into the Spock of S1 of TOS, though I'm not really sure the writers are intending to show us how Spock evolved into the TOS Spock, this seems like a radical re-imagining of the character. We are seeing the character 3 years after "the Cage" but something like 7 years before WNMHGB which is where the character begins to emerge as the logician we adore. Does this new interpretation of Spock trouble anyone?

Spock and Vulcans in general began to go "mystic" as early as season one. Not seeing a problem.

 

[fireproof78]

New Trek, new Spock. If they want a radically different version of Spock, they'll do it. If fans want it explained how a radically different version of Spock fits with the TOS version X number of years later, you'll have vague assurances it's PRIME UNIVERSE and nothing else.

Personally, I love the idea Disco's version of Spock had a crazy emo mystic phase which involved him being incarcerated in a mental health facility.

Not canon.

Ah, forget it. That ship has sailed.

 

[DaveyNY]

It will be interesting to see if They take the time and effort to blend this into his reactions we saw with the VGER Probe.
However this 'episode' ends, will certainly inform his frame of mind during that incident as well.

Though I guess it would be rather difficult, except in some subtle way that Peck portrays the character.

One would think that Spock would have to be referencing his first psychic encounters with the Red Angel when VGER first enters his thoughts.

I imagine we'll probably have an entire future thread just comparing the two events.

 

[Tuvix5675]

Spock and Vulcans in general began to go "mystic" as early as season one. Not seeing a problem.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I never saw Spock as a mystic in TOS. He had telepathic abilities that allowed him to read the thoughts and feelings of other beings, like the rock alien in "The Devil in the Dark", but this is quite natural for Vulcans. Vulcan religion, as I understand it, is a philosophy of enlightenment based on logic-there is no God (universal being). It seems out of character for a logical scientist to give credibility to apocalyptic visions coming from an alien being.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I never saw Spock as a mystic in TOS. He had telepathic abilities that allowed him to read the thoughts and feelings of other beings, like the rock alien in "The Devil in the Dark", but this is quite natural for Vulcans. Vulcan religion, as I understand it, is a philosophy of enlightenment based on logic-there is no God (universal being). It seems out of character for a logical scientist to give credibility to apocalyptic visions coming from an alien being.

People change though. And perhaps this experience does this for Spock. Spock goes on a lot of journeys in TOS and the films.

Again. Vulcan culture has rituals, and traditions. They have their own mysticism-Admiral Morrow refers to it as such in Star Trek III. There are matters of the soul and death that Spock won't discuss with McCoy due to a lack of a common frame of reference.

As with many things, we are watching clips taken out of context for the purpose of advertisement. Anything beyond this is pure speculation until we see the actual show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I never saw Spock as a mystic in TOS. He had telepathic abilities that allowed him to read the thoughts and feelings of other beings, like the rock alien in "The Devil in the Dark", but this is quite natural for Vulcans. Vulcan religion, as I understand it, is a philosophy of enlightenment based on logic-there is no God (universal being). It seems out of character for a logical scientist to give credibility to apocalyptic visions coming from an alien being.

Spock was the character the kids and the counter culture latched on to in the 60's. Something that wan't lost on Nimoy, Roddenberry and others. There's a reason Spock was one sporting and talking IDIC and was down with the space hippies. As we shift into the film era it becomes more pronounced.

 

[Dukhat]

They said this season is doing that. Explaining how Spock we know became how he is in TOS.

They say a lot of stuff.

 

[Lord Garth]

Marrow: "Honestly, Jim. I've never understood Vulcan mysticism."
Kirk: "You don't have to believe. I'm not even sure that I believe."

Marrow sounds like Skinner and Kirk sounds like Scully.

This is a departure from how the character came to be regarded in S1 of TOS as a logical scientist, sure we are supposedly seeing the character before he "evolved" into the Spock of S1 of TOS, though I'm not really sure the writers are intending to show us how Spock evolved into the TOS Spock, this seems like a radical re-imagining of the character. We are seeing the character 3 years after "the Cage" but something like 7 years before WNMHGB which is where the character begins to emerge as the logician we adore. Does this new interpretation of Spock trouble anyone?

I'm not going to jump to conclusions until I see more. Spock was on a spiritual journey throughout all of TOS and the films. Struggling between being more Human, more Vulcan, and immediately snapping back to more Vulcan whenever he started becoming more Human.

I think one of the key reasons Spock attempted to undergo Kholinar was because he was becoming too human by the end of TOS. Kirk was constantly taunting him over it too. "You're becoming more human all the time." And McCoy was always quick to point out the "Gotcha!" moments any chance he got.

So, we'll see. This is just another part of the journey we didn't see. It was probably always one step forward, two steps back. That couldn't have just been limited to just TOS and the first six films. I don't subscribe to the idea that the development of TOS characters should be frozen in 1991 and they can never be portrayed in any different way when it comes to long gaps we didn't see.

And the truth is, Spock in "The Cage" is nothing like Spock in WNMHGB. If they can take the character on some sort of journey from Point A to Point B in this upcoming season, I'm all for it. If it turns out that we don't see Spock going on that sort of journey, then we can hash it out afterwards.