If TMP had kept going

[Norsehound]

I like TMP for reasons different than liking Star Trek as a whole. I kind of treat it like a separate entity that I enjoy on it's own merits...

...but I think the obvious answer to this question is still, "The Next Generation." I always felt the TMP one-piece pajama uniforms were prototypes for what we got in TNG, and the bridge layout being sleek and futuristic was also maintained for TNG. You could also say the badge communicators in TNG is a re-tooling of the belly-mounted persacomms (as in, wearable tech that connects you to the ship and monitors your location).

The only difference is they pushed warmer, humanistic tones mixed with 80s future tech over the cooler functional presentation of the TMP sets.

I also think whatever unpleasant, boring, sky-gazing thing to make TMP unlikable to audiences was enhanced and expanded upon for Season 1 of TNG. It's as if Gene was unaware (or refused to face) why TMP was a bomb with audiences and just decided to make whatever that thing was, into a TV show. It wasn't until he was pushed out of production that TNG started to evolve into something interesting.

 

[Mysterion]

That's what I've figured for years, long before the movie came out. The alternative is Solo didn't know what he was talking about and I reject that.

Han was correct in what he said.

Before Solo, I had always figured that Han was just trying to BS what he thought was just a crazy old man and an ignorant farm kid. IF you watch Kenobi's reaction during this scene, Alec Guiness' facial expression kind of supports this theory.

 

[Pauln6]

It would, you're right! And if they did, that, I would have been happy with it. Unfortunately, I don't really have any ideas for that, just yet.

Well, assuming that they went with the notion of Decker and Ilia returning as planned in Phase II, you can see how they could have explored their relationship with each other and the crew. So TMP2 could have been the restoration of them and how they regain the crew's trust by using V'Ger knowledge to help avert some sort of planetary disaster, and TMP3 could have been some variation on the various time travel ideas - possibly using an alien world rather than Earth.

 

[J.T.B.]

I also think whatever unpleasant, boring, sky-gazing thing to make TMP unlikable to audiences was enhanced and expanded upon for Season 1 of TNG. It's as if Gene was unaware (or refused to face) why TMP was a bomb with audiences and just decided to make whatever that thing was, into a TV show.

TMP wasn't a bomb. It was the most successful Star Trek movie at the box office (inflation adjusted) until 2009.

 

[mb22]

Before Solo, I had always figured that Han was just trying to BS what he thought was just a crazy old man and an ignorant farm kid. IF you watch Kenobi's reaction during this scene, Alec Guiness' facial expression kind of supports this theory.

David Gerrold said the same, back in the day.
https://archive.org/details/starlog_magazine-016/page/n57

 

[DonIago]

TMP wasn't a bomb. It was the most successful Star Trek movie at the box office (inflation adjusted) until 2009.

I believe Norsehound was speaking in terms of likeability, not financial returns.

 

[Smellmet]

TMP wasn't a bomb. It was the most successful Star Trek movie at the box office (inflation adjusted) until 2009.

I thought it had the joint biggest box office take out of all the movies adjusted for inflation? It's 139m haul equates to 509m in today's money, exactly the same as STID in adjusted dollars.

 

[Jedman67]

It certainly has an appeal to a certain audience, but in terms of the pew-pew 'splosion audience it was just a drag. I also don't go to Sundance festivals etc.

 

[Pauln6]

It certainly has an appeal to a certain audience, but in terms of the pew-pew 'splosion audience it was just a drag. I also don't go to Sundance festivals etc.

Every Star Trek movie has more appeal to some part of the audience than others. 2009 was a roller-coaster bubblegum movie but it was only nominally Star Trek. The science was dumbed down and for a 21st century reboot it was appallingly sexist with schoolboy smut humour. I enjoyed it for what it was but I much prefer TMP. That isn't to say TMP wouldn't have benefitted from some more humour, even a bit of schoolboy smut, but it's all in the final mix. Too much one way and you risk losing your pew pew casual fans; too much the other and you annoy for fan base.

If they had made sequels, they would not have been bound to maintain the same ponderous pacing just because they had kept the uniforms and bridge design.

 

[Smellmet]

I'm still pretty happy with how the movie series panned out, it's good that we got that mix of styles of film that we did but I really miss the grand, epic feel of TMP and it's a shame it's the only one to be that way as it's an approach that really suits the franchise, to this middle aged fan at least.

 

[J.T.B.]

I believe Norsehound was speaking in terms of likeability, not financial returns.

With regard to movies the term "bomb" usually refers specifically to financial returns. But it still raises the question: If it wasn't likable, why did people keep buying tickets?

I thought it had the joint biggest box office take out of all the movies adjusted for inflation? It's 139m haul equates to 509m in today's money, exactly the same as STID in adjusted dollars.

That may be, I haven't delved too deeply into it recently. Here is what I wrote when it came up in 2011:

According to George Lucas's Blockbusting, Alex Ben Block ed., ST:TMP had a domestic box office of $208.5 million, adjusted to 2005 dollars. The National Association of Theater Owners gives the average US movie ticket price in 2005 as $6.41 compared to $7.50 in 2009, a ratio of .855:1. If we take STXI's domestic box office of $257.7 million and multiply by .855, we get $220.3 million. That's kind of a back-of-an-envelope estimate but it should be in the ballpark and it does appear that STXI has surpassed TMP as the most successful Trek movie.​

 

[Smellmet]

With regard to movies the term "bomb" usually refers specifically to financial returns. But it still raises the question: If it wasn't likable, why did people keep buying tickets?



That may be, I haven't delved too deeply into it recently. Here is what I wrote when it came up in 2011:

According to George Lucas's Blockbusting, Alex Ben Block ed., ST:TMP had a domestic box office of $208.5 million, adjusted to 2005 dollars. The National Association of Theater Owners gives the average US movie ticket price in 2005 as $6.41 compared to $7.50 in 2009, a ratio of .855:1. If we take STXI's domestic box office of $257.7 million and multiply by .855, we get $220.3 million. That's kind of a back-of-an-envelope estimate but it should be in the ballpark and it does appear that STXI has surpassed TMP as the most successful Trek movie.​

I'm talking worldwide with my figures.

 

[J.T.B.]

I'm talking worldwide with my figures.

Yeah, I was looking at domestic. International distribution changed so much in those 30 years it's a lot harder to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[Jedman67]

That's fair. ST09 in my mind dumbed down a lot for the popcorn audience. First Contact as well, but at least it had some sort of soul. TWOK was outstanding in terms of action, dialog and plot. Mostly the same with TUC, but that movie deserved at least one more rewrite and polish that it never got. Both movies show that you can have plenty of pew-pew without dumbing it down to a mindless action flick.
Into Darkness was somewhat better than ST09, but was filled with outstandingly useless plot devices

 

[Maurice]

TWOK needed another polish, too. It's got too many plot contrivances.

 

[Pauln6]

TWOK needed another polish, too. It's got too many plot contrivances.

I think most movies could do with being tweaked. In ST09 if Kirk had been beamed to the brig on Delta Vega and Spock had already been there, you can strip out a day's travel time, research and modification time, the contrivance of meeting Spock in a random cave, and the stupidity of Scotty ignoring an emergency signal and leaving someone to freeze to death in the snow all with one small, sensible tweak. All of which removes the need to beam across interstellar distances.

 

[Smellmet]

Let's face it you can pick big holes in every single trek film. There isn't a single one that's exempt.

 

[Jedman67]

I think most movies could do with being tweaked. In ST09 if Kirk had been beamed to the brig on Delta Vega and Spock had already been there, you can strip out a day's travel time, research and modification time, the contrivance of meeting Spock in a random cave, and the stupidity of Scotty ignoring an emergency signal and leaving someone to freeze to death in the snow all with one small, sensible tweak. All of which removes the need to beam across interstellar distances.

It wouldn't have saved the interstellar beam, which was required later to get Kirk back on board the enterprise.

Let's face it you can pick big holes in every single trek film. There isn't a single one that's exempt.

Some holes are more outrageous than others. When the entire movie is strung along by a poorly contrived plot overflowing with contradictions and even more contrivances (Insurrection, and Into Darkness to a lesser extant) so it falls apart on even the most cursory examination; well fortunately only a few were quite that bad.

 

[Pauln6]

It wouldn't have saved the interstellar beam, which was required later to get Kirk back on board the enterprise

If the Enterprise had only been travelling away for a couple of hours at less than warp 4, an interstellar beam per se is not required, only transwarp beaming to beam through a warp field at a slightly longer distance than normal.

They would have needed a more imaginative escape for Cumberbatch in the sequel though. That's a good thing.

The plot holes in TMP are certainly not as jarring. The crew do not need a contrived plan that sails through various plot holes to somehow overcome the transparently overwhelming odds through ingenuity that my friend's 8 year old could see through.

I chuckled in Trek 2009 when they somehow managed to beat Nero to Earth, despite having a speed of only Warp 4 and flying in the wrong direction for 8+ hours, and then hid behind a planet, perhaps applying rather two dimensional thinking...

 

[Discofan]

They still beat the geriatric tracksuits they are wearing on Discovery!

I once watched Kirk in my pajamas, I don't know how he got into my pajamas though.