News Next Arrowverse Crossover to Include Batwoman

[M'rk son of Mogh]

^ Arrow being unable to use Deathstroke yet again is not evidence of a "film only embargo"; it's evidence of that series' access to that character having temporarily expired.

"For a time they were saying 'you can't use Deathstroke', then that changed and we were able to have Slade Wilson back on the show, and now we're back to 'you can't use him'. They're working on the feature film version, it really is sort of now that you've got obviously Slade, spoiler alert, Deathstroke appears at the end of the Justice League movie."

So you're lying or the producer of the show working in the industry is lying.

Who to believe, who to believe...

Was that before the new show runner took over though?

She might have decided that Death Stroke has had his day and move on.

She took over for the current season, well after they abruptly wrapped up the Slade arc last season.

 

[DigificWriter]

Guggenheim never explicitly said that Deathstroke appearing at the end of Justice League is the reason Arrow lost its access to that character; you're merely inferring that based on what he did say, and doing so based on what we know to be outdated precedent.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Yes.

He brought it up for no reason at all.
That's what people do. He just mentions potential spoilers for the sake of ruining it for people who haven't seen the movie and no other reason.

Is there no such thing as occam's razor in your universe?

And he said this a year ago this week. Is there evidence things have changed since then?

 

[Tuskin38]

You have no evidence of this.

Neither do you boatman.

Guggenheim never explicitly said that Deathstroke appearing at the end of Justice League is the reason Arrow lost its access to that character

Did you even read the quote?

 

[Jayson1]

^ Arrow being unable to use Deathstroke yet again is not evidence of a "film only embargo"; it's evidence of that series' access to that character having temporarily expired.

In the end though it comes down to the simple fact that movies have priority over all the characters. We will never see a movie not use a character because they are on a tv show. Which means in the end even if it's isn't technically a embargo it still sort of serves the same function.

Jason

 

[Christopher]

In the end though it comes down to the simple fact that movies have priority over all the characters. We will never see a movie not use a character because they are on a tv show. Which means in the end even if it's isn't technically a embargo it still sort of serves the same function.

That's true enough, but the difference is that an embargo is absolute while the actual case-by-case decision process is more flexible. Many DC characters have been off-limits to the shows because of movie plans, but we still get the Flash, we still get Superman (occasionally), we still get Wonder Girl and Themyscira, we still get younger versions of Bruce Wayne and Alfred, and we still get shows where Batman is an influential presence if not an on-camera one. The difference between an absolute stricture and a flexible policy may be subtle, but it's still significant.

 

[thribs]

Superman is enough. We don’t need the others.

 

[matthunter]

Superman is enough. We don’t need the others.

You need new material.

 

[Tuskin38]

Superman is enough. We don’t need the others.

No

 

[JD]

Other than Batman, the other character I'm the most disappointed we'll probably not get in the Arrowverse is Wonder Woman. I would love to get a WW/Supergirl team up. Oh, and of course we'd have to continue the tradition of an earlier actor playing the new version's parent and cast Lynda Carter as Hippolyta.

 

[thribs]

I’m sure some variation of WW is coming. Probably Cassie.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Maybe Superman should die in next year's Crisis crossover, subvert expectations since Supergirl died in the comics.

 

[thribs]

Maybe Superman should die in next year's Crisis crossover, subvert expectations since Supergirl died in the comics.

They probably will, with his son being raised to take over.

 

[Awesome Possum]

They probably will, with his son being raised to take over.

He got better that last time it happened.

 

[thribs]

He got better that last time it happened.

They’ll do that one with Supergirl

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

We have no idea what criteria is being used to determine character access rights, and people therefore ought to stop making assumptions in that regard.

Then the following can be considered assumption--

^ It ought to go without saying that having access to the entire Batman property license includes the character of Batman himself.

--as of this date, still unverified, either from the alleged source, and after years of recent DC/TV productions, no evidence Batman would appear on any series, or will appear in the future.

 

[Christopher]

Maybe Superman should die in next year's Crisis crossover, subvert expectations since Supergirl died in the comics.

They already subverted expectations by having Oliver make that deal with the Monitor to prevent Kara and Barry from dying. That plot point's already been dealt with. Hopefully they'll tell their own story in the way that works best for them rather than just trying to pander to fan expectations of this plot beat or that one happening.

 

[N-121973]

I've now seen the crossover twice. I've watched the individual episodes and then I watched them back-to-back. I really enjoyed them, though like others, I did feel that conversation between Clark & Kara at the end could have been handled differently, ie they shouldn't have laid it on with a trowel. Though it does provide the Supergirl team with an excuse for why Superman doesn't show up later this season to help Kara sort out Lex Luthor. I do have a couple of observations though. If Deegan's manipulations only affected natives of Earth-1, how come Sherloque Wells didn't see Barry & Oliver the way the Earth-38ers did? And would Laurel have coming from Earth-2 have seen them differently? Also why didn't they ask Cecile to mind-read them? Obviously the off-screen answer to my questions was they needed a reason for them to go to Earth-38 and enlist Supergirl's help. Also, if in Oliver's mind there's no Batman, who did he think put the Joker, Penguin & Riddler et al away given the state of the GCPD?
When there was talk of a member of DC's Legends of Tomorrow cameoing I couldn't help but wonder if they meant Brandon Routh would appear as Superman. By the way, I wonder if Gary was still a virgin in the altered timeline ? Speaking of Legends I loved the scene where they mentioned getting messages from Oliver, Barry & Kara and Ray replied: 'It must be that time of year'.
I have to say I'm really pumped for COIE next year (is it too soon to start an 'anticipation thread'?), but I felt that given the scale and potential impact of such a story, it overshadows the rest of the seasons for the Arrowverse shows, especially Arrow itself. I also can't help wonder if given the story's scale that they might treat it differently to past crossovers. The tease states its coming in 'Fall 2019' (Autumn for those of us outside North America), I wonder if they're going to do COIE as a lead-in to their shows, ie it kicks off the season, or perhaps it could be a separate mini-series. I even wonder if it'll last all season long across all shows, afterall it would be a great way for the CW to get people to tune in. Hopefully it'll include Black Lightning & the new Batwoman shos as well as the existing quartet and include characters as diverse as Jonah Hex and Superman.

 

[dahj]

and doing so based on what we know to be outdated precedent.

How 'bout something current?
Here's Titans producer Greg Walker pretty much confirming that the decisions on who they can and can't use are made by the higher-ups on a case by case basis:

As for Batgirl, executive producer Akiva Goldsman had previously indicated the character was off-limits to Titans. When asked if that restriction had lapsed in the months since, Walker told us, "He’s probably right. There are times when my partners go out on shopping sprees and see who they can bring back to me, and sometimes we get big yeses, and sometimes we get big nos. And I’m not privy to a lot of those conversations."

(Here's the source but there's a bunch of Titans spoilers in the interview, so if you're trying to avoid those, beware.)

 

[Christopher]

I really enjoyed them, though like others, I did feel that conversation between Clark & Kara at the end could have been handled differently, ie they shouldn't have laid it on with a trowel.

I still don't see a problem with that scene. Superman/Clark is all about being humble regarding himself and supportive and encouraging toward others. More than that -- he was just about to tell Kara that he was leaving the responsibility for protecting the entire planet in her hands. So of course he'd do everything he could to boost her confidence, to assure her that she was worthy of that responsibility. That's what the scene represented.

I do have a couple of observations though. If Deegan's manipulations only affected natives of Earth-1, how come Sherloque Wells didn't see Barry & Oliver the way the Earth-38ers did?

Presumably because he was on Earth-1 when its reality was altered. It's not that being from other Earths gives people an immunity; it's that the transformation effect only happened on Earth-1, so everyone on Earth-1 at the time was affected but nobody on other Earths was. If Kara had been on Earth-1 at the time, she would've been affected too. (And no doubt Laurel was as well.)

Also why didn't they ask Cecile to mind-read them?

That would've only confirmed that Oliver and Barry believed they were each other, and everyone already knew that. Team Flash would've just gone on believing that some villain had brainwashed them or something.

Also, if in Oliver's mind there's no Batman, who did he think put the Joker, Penguin & Riddler et al away given the state of the GCPD?

Presumably they've been in Arkham for years already (although the Joker wasn't mentioned). Remember, Gotham didn't deteriorate to its current "dead" state until after Batman left, and as a result of Batman leaving. Presumably when Batman was around, he was content to give Gordon and the GCPD the credit for his achievements.

Although that raises a question for me -- why the heck would the Penguin be in Arkham? He's not mentally ill. He's one of Batman's more level-headed and cunning adversaries. His only obsession is his desire for class and respectability.