She-Ra and the Princesses of Power
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
The characters are off model sometimes but that is intentional, each storyboard artist is given that freedom, you don't have to like that choice but it's not incompetence. The animation itself is often simple (but it does have its moments) but that's just a reality of tv animation.
I don't know what's badly planned about the world building or how the characterization is crappy, could you give so e actual examples? And now, I will not watch two random people's 2 hour videos.
If they are unlikable or not is completely subjective, I happen to like all the main characters, I dislike some of the supporting cast but so what? That doesn't make the show bad.
The background characters are obviously NOT supposed to be just that when they are given focus, developing the supporting cast is generally something tv shows are praised for so I don't understand that criticism.
The show being constantly on hiatus is annoying but that's Cartoon Network's doing not the writers' or producers.
The crystal gems are literally the reason humanity is not extinct and they keep protecting the planet to this day. They don't treat humans badly, they just don't interact that much and there's a disconnect because the gems are functionally immortal and already thousands of years old when the show starts.
They wear sandals in good weather, they live in a tiny town on the beach.
Steven is raised as a gem, he's a (half)magical superhero in training.
So what?
Greg was a touring musician when he came to Beach City and started to work at the car wash some time after he decided to stay, he runs it by the time the show starts.
The crystal gems fight the facism of homeworld, it is not tolerated, they fought a war nevause of that. The show tends to redeem some characters but that shouldn't be surprising, that's nardly something invented by Steven Universe.
Again, wether they are unlikable or not is subjective but they do progress. Amethyst has changed a lot, she dealt with her inferiority complex and matured, Lapis suffers from PTSD and learns to trust again and builds relationships etc.
THAT'S NOT HAPPENING!!!
Are you fucking kidding me? You are blaming Steven Universe for that?
Very little! Some of the characters can come across as unlikable at first glance, that's before the reasons for their behavior are revealed. If you're interested give the show a chance, it starts pretty episodic and honestly not that great but once the characters are established and the story gets going it becomes awesome.
That's twice now I've seen someone in this thread misuse the phrase "morbidly obese" to describe an animated character who is merely moderately plump. That's not only hyperbolic and ignorant, but body-shaming and intolerant. Morbid obesity means a degree of obesity that's medically dangerous, that creates a serious disease risk or impairs basic functioning. It's for a doctor to define based on a patient's medical symptoms -- not something that some random person online can assess by sight and use as an insult.
Oh, I'm definitely going to check it out. Pretty much everything else I've heard about it has been good, and I already checked out a couple episodes, and while I was a little lost, since I jumped in with just a little bit of research one Wikipedia, I really enjoyed them.
I was just shocked to see that @Shaka Zulu hated the show with such a passion, when pretty much everyone else I've come across seems to really like it. So I was just curious why his opinion was the exact opposite of every other reaction I've seen.
I've only seen the first series of Steven Universe, and while it was (very) slow to get going, once it did it was delightful; open-minded, playful, smart, characterful and full of heart, so I too struggle to see where Shaka Zulu's coming from. I'm aware of one other person who's thrown up similar criticism elsewhere online, and they couldn't really back it up, either. I'd certainly take SU over Adventure Time, which I've always struggled to get into.
Also, as someone who likes to include fuller-figured characters in his writing, I echo Christopher: that's twice someone in this thread has thrown out the term 'morbidly obese' to describe characters who aren't even close to that; just how low has the threshold gotten? Plump can be attractive and appealing too, you know.
This is starting to smack of looking for excuses to slam a show, not actual, rational issues with them.
Also, as someone who likes to include fuller-figured characters in his writing, I echo Christopher: that's twice someone in this thread has thrown out the term 'morbidly obese' to describe characters who aren't even close to that; just how low has the threshold gotten? Plump can be attractive and appealing too, you know.
This is starting to smack of looking for excuses to slam a show, not actual, rational issues with them.
You posted a load of discredited nonsense about being healthily obese which is ignorant and dangerous. I hardly think you're in a position to moralise.
If you think the characters you've cited are anywhere near morbidly obese, then perhaps you need an eye exam -- or else you need to get out and meet more real people as opposed to idealized media images. Morbidly obese is something like Fat Albert. Spinnerella and Steven Universe are just well-padded endomorphs. Plenty of people of that build are in good health.
The only character I mentioned is Spinnerella. From a clinical perspective her BMI looks over 30 so yes she is morbidly obese or close to it. You obviously have an image of someone weighing 600 pounds when you see the term "morbid obesity". An individual need only be 100 pounds overweight to qualify for morbid obesity.
I have no idea what Stevens Universe is but I looked at the pictures JD posted and "Greg" is certainly in the category.
No. BMI of 30 is the threshold for simple obesity. Morbid obesity does not occur until the BMI is at least 40, at which point a person's health care costs are double that of a person of normal weight.* People with a BMI between 30-40 have fewer health issues and are not classified as "morbidly obese."
Link from NIH - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864630/
Among middle-aged adults, a BMI of 35–40 is associated with twice the increase in healthcare expenditure above normal weight (about a 50% increase) than a BMI of 30–35 (about a 25% increase); a BMI of over 40 doubles healthcare costs (about 100% higher costs above those of normal weight).
[...]
In addition to the standard ‘obese’ category, defined as a BMI of greater than or equal to 30 kg/m2, the main groups of interest were more extreme categories: BMI≥35, BMI≥40 (often referred to as morbid obesity and roughly corresponding to 100 pounds (45 kg) overweight), BMI≥45, and BMI≥50 (sometimes referred to as super obesity).
[...]
In addition to the standard ‘obese’ category, defined as a BMI of greater than or equal to 30 kg/m2, the main groups of interest were more extreme categories: BMI≥35, BMI≥40 (often referred to as morbid obesity and roughly corresponding to 100 pounds (45 kg) overweight), BMI≥45, and BMI≥50 (sometimes referred to as super obesity).
Here's a second source [https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/highland/bariatric-surgery-center/questions/morbid-obesity.aspx]:
An individual is considered morbidly obese if he or she is 100 pounds over his/her ideal body weight, has a BMI of 40 or more, or 35 or more and experiencing obesity-related health conditions, such as high blood pressure or diabetes.
* - Or a person may be said to be morbidly obese at a lower BMI than 40, but only if they are actually suffering from "obesity-related health conditions."
Misusing terms like "morbid obesity" does your argument no favors.
Okay, there's your basic failure of understanding -- your numbers are way off. Morbid or extreme (Class III) obesity is BMI 40 and above.
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK279167/
Over 30 is obese, but far from morbidly so. It's Class I obesity, the lowest level that qualifies, and the health risk is proportional to the abdominal fat accumulation, the proportion of fat around the waist. Basically, the more pear-shaped the individual, the worse the health risk. Both Spinnerella and Steven Universe have a fairly normal waist-to-hip ratio.
And again, these are medical definitions, for a doctor to judge based on an actual examination. It is absurd to suggest that you can judge it at a glance. If someone is naturally endomorphic, that will give them a fuller figure for the same BMI as someone naturally mesomorphic or ectomorphic. And if they're physically active -- as action heroes like the characters under discussion here certainly are -- then they can still be reasonably healthy even with a plus-size build.
You shouldn't have said anything. It's for a doctor to judge on an individual basis, for the sake of helping someone's health. Declaring it as a negative judgment based on how you think someone looks is pure insult and pettiness.
Who the hell do you think you are to tell me what I can and can't say? It appears once again that you think your opinion is the only one worthy of attention. It's time you got over yourself and accepted you can't control the flow of all discussions.
I've apologised for misusing a medical term. Now move on, buddy boy.
He's trying to control the thread because he thinks his opinion is the only one that matters. As usual.
Pardon my bluntness but people should be ashamed to be fat unless they have a very good medical reason for it. It does no one any favours to pretend being overweight is a positive thing. I will, however, refrain from commenting on the appearance of cartoon characters in the future. I wouldn't want to hurt their feelings.
Actually, if anyone's trying to 'control the thread', here, it's you. You're certainly being the most confrontational. Between that and the intolerant attitudes you're going to have plenty of people taking exception. You're generalising about things that can't be generalised, that are individual. There is no standard, template body shape from which we can only deviate a little; people vary far more than that, and what's healthy for one won't be so for another. Why is that such a difficult concept for you to accept?
I'm standing up for other people, not myself. If I see someone expressing intolerance for other people or judging them unfairly, I will protest that whether it affects me personally or not, because it's everyone's responsibility to care about others. Which is basically the message of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. Its positivity toward people of diverse body types is a conscious statement, as much as its cast's racial diversity and implicit sexual diversity. It's saying that no one deserves to be shamed or diminished for not conforming to someone's idea of how people "should" look.
The videos I posted were, as I said before, people making an honest critique of the show, not excuses to slam it; I happen to agree with them. The critiques aren't any different from what professional critics would do, and to be frank, people like yourself are just angry that somebody did said honest critique, and isn't jumping on a popular bandwagon, so you all won't look at them because.... excuses.
Oh yeah, Chris, about that; another reason to be wary of this show is this incident involving a teenage girl who engaged in 'wrongthink' by drawing Steven's mom as thin instead of fat and who was driven to almost commit suicide to the bullying she got from fans of the show on Tumblr. That's right, Tumblr, the same Tumblr held up by emoprogressives as being better than 4chan, but is just as toxic. Yet another reason to be wary of this show is the creating by Sugar of a black character that looks like the stereotypical 'jigaboo/'darkie' depiction of Afro-Americans in the 1900's, 1910's, 1920's, 1930's and 1940's, which by accident (ha!) she left in the official scrapbook, for which she and her staff was rightfully blasted (and her staff has an Afro-American male who himself didn't raise a flag with his boss about this.)
I'm going to end my commentary on Steven Universe vs. She-Ra & The Princesses Of Power by saying that the latter show is better than the former, and the former is a great concept executed in a lousy and incompetent manner by a creator and her staff who aren't as progressive as they claim, and who all need to go back to animation/script-writing school to learn how to do both better. I'll also say that it's sad how Cartoon Network can let great shows like Sym-Bionic Titan get cancelled, while allowing crap like this to prosper just because people think it's 'progressive', a 'game changer', etc.
For those who complained about how long the Lily Orchard critique video was:
Timestamps for people who need to watch in chunks
Introduction - 00:00 Oooh Shiny - 1:30 Arc Fatigue - 18:29 Shrink-A-Dink - 41:13 Hide Your Gays - 48:15 Myopia - 1:01:40 Rose Quartz Is A Fucking Cunt - 1:13:59 The Part Where We Talk About That - 1:38:50 Executive Action - 1:52:17 Conclusion - 2:01:14
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