Disco's version of TOS/TAS: Differences

[Dukhat]

TOS's aesthetic can be updated without it looking "cheap." I've seen a few fan renders that update it nicely without throwing it all away. Even ST09 payed homage to TOS's Enterprise bridge with the Kelvin's bridge. And even the Kelvin was a nice modernization of the TOS ship aesthetic.

Absolutely. Abrams got the look of the Kelvin universe absolutely right: A modern take on the original TOS aesthetic. It shows that something like that can be taken seriously. DSC season 1 went a different route: they sacrificed the TOS aesthetic completely for a more 21st-century idea of what the 23rd would look like. And honestly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that they claim it takes place ten years before TOS, which was what they were trying to get away from. That's not very logical, unless there was another reason why they would state this (ahem, more subscribers to CBSAA, ahem.)

 

[Mirror Mirror]

I've seen both in design language with simple being indication of more advance (re: Ipod and the one button) while more accessories indicating more functions. It just depends on the presentation and personal interaction and familiarity with the device.

Not with the TOS model, its to primitive looking.Even the ENT update did not fix the issues.

 

[Lance]

I'm of the view that the aesthetic seen in The Cage -- a more battleship aesthetic, darker internal lighting, subdued uniforms, etc -- can be subtly updated to 21st century expectations without losing the original look or set design... a satisfying halfway house approach... but even I feel like a slavishly accurate 1966-1969 style aesthetic would be ludicrous. Nobody should even expect that, if, like I said earlier, the Next Trek era hadn't gone and canonized the look as "how it really was".

 

[F. King Daniel]

Not to me...

ETA: Regardless, I think DISCO's aesthetic flows perfectly in to TMP and I largely ignore interpretations of TOS as artistic recreations in universe rather than fully accurate.

It really doesn't, though. Disco has huge monitors everywhere spamming with info, TMP has rows of much smaller circular screens each displaying one piece of information each. TMP has only physical buttons and none of Disco's touchscreens. TMP even has glare shields above their monitors, which is an adorable anachronism.

It looks closer than TOS, but it's still a product of it's time. The early 90's STVI bridge is likely the closest to Disco, both aesthetically (dark, metallic) and functionally (the walls are huge touchscreens, a combo of touchscreens and physical buttons)

 

[Rahul]

I think we are again at this point where people confuse aesthetics with production value.

Because the production values of TOS are absolutely not holding up anymore. Hell, they didn't even in the 70s, when TMP changed everything. But I think the aesthetics still work really, really fine!

Just if you take a look at, say, the Kelvin movies, Black Mirrors "USS Callister", or "The Orville", or literally any other Trek parody, animated or something from "Big Bang Theory" - it uses aesthetics similar to TOS, which are still very much the codifier for how "Star Trek" looks - brightly colored uniforms, brightly lit, generally lots of different colors (greens, yellow, red) that normally aren't used in sci-fi (which, outside of Star Trek, is predominantly blue and grey - sadly DIS as well...). So yeah, for me the TOS era still looks like TOS, just not as "cheap", but like this:
https://trekmovie.com/2006/09/08/more-images-from-edenfx/

 

[Cyrus]

Just if you take a look at, say, the Kelvin movies, Black Mirrors "USS Callister", or "The Orville", or literally any other Trek parody, animated or something from "Big Bang Theory" - it uses aesthetics similar to TOS, which are still very much the codifier for how "Star Trek" looks - brightly colored uniforms, brightly lit, generally lots of different colors (greens, yellow, red) that normally aren't used in sci-fi (which, outside of Star Trek, is predominantly blue and grey - sadly DIS as well...). So yeah, for me the TOS era still looks like TOS, just not as "cheap",

I agree. What do you think of ENT In a Mirror Darkly episodes? I thought the TOS ship (especially the exteriors) looked more advanced than NX-01. And the TOS sets looked good with darker more modern lighting too.

 

[Rahul]

I agree. What do you think of ENT In a Mirror Darkly episodes? I thought the TOS ship (especially the exteriors) looked more advanced than NX-01. And the TOS sets looked good with darker more modern lighting too.

I thought it worked great, but TOS was my first Trek (and the one I fell in love with), so I'm pretty biased here. I actually liked the engine set which was built new specifically for this episode, very functional, but in the style of TOS.

But I'm generally a fan of a more industrial, but friendly look for starships. With bare pipes running around (but colored, to make it look more inviting), and weirdly cut rooms and corridors - because they suggest that the starship wasn't built around the rooms, but the rooms were layed around the engines and machinery of the starship. I'm also a fan of what Nicholas Meyer did with the sets - but also happy he was only allowed to go half-way - make it more claustrophobic, more industrial, but not necessarily too dark or too militaristic. I think a good design is if it looks functional. A problem I have wih the DIS sets is that they are soo big and empty, they don't really look like they fit on a small starship, more like in a building complex or station where space isn't an issue.

 

[eschaton]

I agree. What do you think of ENT In a Mirror Darkly episodes? I thought the TOS ship (especially the exteriors) looked more advanced than NX-01. And the TOS sets looked good with darker more modern lighting too.

To me the NX-01 is most heavily influenced by late 20th century spacecraft designs like the Space Shuttle, along with contemporary military craft. It has little bits of design from the TOS era (and the later series as well) but it's supposed to reflect an evolution of contemporary spacecraft/military design.

I honestly have no issue whatsoever with the idea there will be wild shifts in design aesthetics over centuries of time. Maybe Starfleet will go through a phase where wood paneling and ceramic tiled floors are considered to be the big thing. A lot can happen as generations pass.

 

[KennyB]

The TOS Connie looks older than the NX man

It is.

 

[Kemaiku]

I can see somebody now thought processing out a Trek Novel about how that particular waitress...,
was really Mirror Georgieu.

Oh but wait until they explain it's because of a holographic cocktail dress like the cloak from the trailer, damn holograms again!

 

[Ronald Held]

Could you please explain these novel only terms, not everyone here reads them and it can be confusing.

Meant no TMP Klingons ever went to K-7?

 

[Lord Garth]

It looks closer than TOS, but it's still a product of it's time. The early 90's STVI bridge is likely the closest to Disco, both aesthetically (dark, metallic) and functionally (the walls are huge touchscreens, a combo of touchscreens and physical buttons)

TUC's bridge is the closest to DSC's style but I'll give the nod to TFF as the first modern-looking 23rd Century bridge.

Disco has huge monitors everywhere spamming with info, TMP has rows of much smaller circular screens each displaying one piece of information each. TMP has only physical buttons and none of Disco's touchscreens. TMP even has glare shields above their monitors, which is an adorable anachronism.

Yup. And even though they switched over to Okudagrams in TVH, the reasons you give above are why I considered thinking about TVH's Enterprise-A as the first modern bridge but instead I'll call it "almost there".

 

[fireproof78]

Not with the TOS model, its to primitive looking.Even the ENT update did not fix the issues.

Agree to disagree. I don't have the eye for what's primitive and not. Tech can be slimmed down and still be highly advanced. That's how I regard the Constitution. I'll freely admit my bias here, but I look at the NX 01 and it feels (highly subjective judgment I know) less high tech. Now, I definitely see places where tech just advanced so there are a lot of anachronisms in the design, but the overall feel is not one where I go "oh...that's more primitive."

But, if you say it's more primitive, I'm not going to argue with you.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

I guess the constitution class model would be updated in light of contemporary state of the art naval ship designs like the USS Zumwalt and consist of simple geometric shapes with little to no surface detail by the 2260s.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

It is.

Yep and it screams this in every way.

Agree to disagree. I don't have the eye for what's primitive and not. Tech can be slimmed down and still be highly advanced. That's how I regard the Constitution. I'll freely admit my bias here, but I look at the NX 01 and it feels (highly subjective judgment I know) less high tech. Now, I definitely see places where tech just advanced so there are a lot of anachronisms in the design, but the overall feel is not one where I go "oh...that's more primitive."

But, if you say it's more primitive, I'm not going to argue with you.

We can disagree, but let me explain what I mean. The shapes and design Lagrange is simply primitive, simple, very, very simple, like Model -T style simple. Put it next the the TMP design or the Phase II design and its clear cut its just too simplistic. The NX design, ignoring textures , just the base form, is far, far, far, more complex. Its leaps and bounds more detailed.

 

[Tuskin38]

The NX design, ignoring textures , just the base form, is far, far, far, more complex. Its leaps and bounds more detailed.

Matt Jefferies designed the Connie to be smooth because in his mind most of the maintenance work in the future would be done on the inside the ship, they wouldn't expose anything important on the outside of the ship.

He could have made it more complex but decided not to. I even read somewhere that his art team wanted him to make it more detailed, but he refused on the grounds I stated above.

When Doug Drexler and others designed the NX-01 they purposely inverted Jefferies design style to show that the NX-01 was an older, more primitive ship.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Matt Jefferies designed the Connie to be smooth because in his mind most of the maintenance work in the future would be done on the inside the ship, they wouldn't expose anything important on the outside of the ship.

He could have made it more complex but decided not to. I even read somewhere that his art team wanted him to make it more detailed, but he refused on the grounds I stated above.

When Doug Drexler and others designed the NX-01 they purposely inverted Jefferies design style to show that the NX-01 was an older, more primitive ship.

The smoothness is not the core issue, the shape and design just look primitive.

 

[Tuskin38]

The smoothness is not the core issue, the shape and design just look primitive.

The NX-01 uses the same primitive shapes.

Hell so does the Connie Refit, even more so when they made the nacelles rectangular.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

The smoothness is not the core issue, the shape and design just look primitive.

Out of curiosity (not in an abrasive way), would you say this ship looks primitive (am hoping the picture loads lol) because of its reliance on basic geometric shapes?

 

[Mirror Mirror]

The NX-01 uses the same primitive shapes.

Hell so does the Connie Refit, even more so when they made the nacelles rectangular.

No, it does not use those same shapes. If you do not see it and understand it, I am not sure I can explain it to you. But lets be honest, if you showed those images to non trek fans, no one is going to say the TOS design is newer.

Out of curiosity (not in an abrasive way), would you say this ship looks primitive (am hoping the picture loads lol) because of its reliance on basic geometric shapes?

Oddly I do not see the image, but saw it in the quote. Anyhow, its no where near as simplistic as the TOS design, not by a mile. You guys are missing the issue, its not being smooth, the Model T is smooth, but it looks primitive, The TOS, s a tube, two flat beams, a couple of simplistic tubes and a pie dish.

Non-trek fans will not even see your argument that its "smooth because its high tech", the ST09 looks smooth and Iphone high tech, the TOS design looks smooth its a primitive Model T high tech. The forums are simply too simplistic and primitive.

Non non-fan is ever gonna think the TOS design is newer than the NX.