Better series lead. Ed Mercer from "Orville" vs Burnham from "Discovery?"

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Jayson1, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I am wondering if there was a change in plans, because it seems like the pairings were changed after conception - Isaac and Newton (the engineer) are a pun / combo just waiting to happen, but as someone earlier pointed out, Isaac/Gordon is a funny combo, leaving LaMarr on his own a bit. Even if it wasn't planned, I like the parody-parallel with him getting promoted to chief engineer right before Season 2. Even his name seems to be a play on Geordi LaForge/Levar Burton in some ways, but that could just be my own brain drawing connections. If LaMarr keeps some of his personality intact while still working out genius level engineering solutions, it could be great stuff.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It worked for John Crichton.
     
  3. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why not? :shrug:
     
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  4. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    That was what Star Trek always was, why the need for it to change what it is? There's just far better options for both meaningful sci-fi and modern drama out there.
     
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  5. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I was watching STD in hopes that it would be reasonably intelligent and entertaining in something other than an adolescent or fannish way.

    It is not.

    The idea that it's drama or science fiction of any quality is...well, pathetic.
     
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  6. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    Westworld is a sci-fi series on HBO. :p
     
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :scream:
     
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  8. Owain Taggart

    Owain Taggart Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, I think that's exactly what makes it work so well. It subverts expectations. When you think you know what's going to happen, it changes direction. As a result, it has a bit of everything and a lot of variety. In short, it's doing its own thing and is not beholden to any preconceived notions.
     
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  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trek was always a mix of things, including adventure, drama, tension, war, battles, and the like. Some have deeper meaning and others are not. I think Greg Cox once stated that Star Trek has a big enough tent for a wide variety of story telling.

    Star Trek storytelling has changed before, and will do so again. Individual preference as to which one they enjoy will also vary, otherwise we would have only one Star Trek show that everyone enjoys.
     
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  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    .
    That just means it has comedic elements, a parody is a very specific type of comedy, which The Orville.

    The fact that The Orville does not have these things means it is not a parody.
    It is the presence of jokes like these that means it's not a parody, we never saw that kind of stuff in Star Trek.

    I think there have been enough dramatic moments for it to qualify as a dramedy.

    Here, let me help you with that.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. gblews

    gblews Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, in the form a laugh at the expense of the city of Compton's negative public image. I don't know why you keep trying to dance around this very obvious fact.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My not buying into your characterization of the line as having been made just "to get a cheap laugh" does not constitute me dancing around anything, especially the idea that the line might have been made at the expense of the city of Compton's negative public image, something with which in fact I completely agree with. It's your conflation of the two ideas (made for a cheap laugh vs made at the expense of Compton's negative public image) that I have a problem with.

    There's nothing wrong with social commentary on the subject of race relations in a show that's presented to us as Star Trek-esque. That holds even if, if not especially if, that social commentary is made more directly than by a metaphor involving one half-black, half-white alien vs one half-white, half-black alien from the planet Cheron. If one's gonna get quite specific in the commentary, there are of course going to be winners and losers. When people behave in a shitty way, that's the nature of things: you point at someone and say they're behaving in a shitty way, or even if you just imply it, and consequently you're casting them in a negative light.

    Obviously, the intention is not to hold onto an audience who'd get offended enough by the Compton line to tune out. That's still perfectly compatible with the idea that MacFarlane opined* that the line would have net value. You're just painting that as going for "a cheap laugh," and I'm not buying. Time to move on.

    * - eta: I really don't know, but I'd assume the pros and cons of it were batted around with others during the scripting phase. But I didn't even need to use the word "opined"; I could have just said "thought" instead. It's just that you can never know what's in a person's head, unless they share it with others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  13. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    God knows that the Compton line was incredibly tame by MacFarlane's standards.
     
  14. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    What on earth are you talking about? Are you another one of those fans who cannot deal with change in a franchise or any other form of entertainment? As for there being other options that are far better . . . that may be your opinion, but it's not mine.

    I doubt that everyone would enjoy only one kind of Star Trek series. There is bound to be people who would demand more variety.
     
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  15. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Maybe he's just someone who likes decent writing. MacFarlane's show has quite a bit of it; STD's storytelling is clumsier and more amateurish than most of CBS's dull, by-the-numbers NCIS/CSI procedural junk.

    Yeah, there's plenty of good science fiction on TV these days. STD really doesn't even qualify, much less make the cut.
     
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  16. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    I think change is inevitable, at the same time you can move too far away from what makes something special. For me, Star Trek's optimism and sense of adventure made it special. Something that has been lacking in Discovery... so far.

    When you move away from that core, you are forced to compare it with other modern dramas. Things like Westworld, The Handmaid's Tale, The Expanse, and against those it comes up utterly lacking. CBS or the writers, or both wanted to do "serious" Star Trek but without the things that now make serious shows good. There's no optimism or sense of adventure, there's also no "what the fuck?" that is so well done by other shows.

    All from my point-of-view.
     
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  17. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    In some ways STD reminds me of Stargate: Universe - there was an example of producers who wanted to do something more mature, more "quality" than previous installments of that franchise but sadly did not have any idea how to write up to those aspirations.
     
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  18. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    It is funny, when I saw the Klingon boob, I actually laughed.
     
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  19. gblews

    gblews Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The line was in the show to get a laugh, can we at least agree on that? The line was "cheap" because it went for the obvious joke about Compton, based on the cities' most well known (stereotypical) image. It wasn't clever, and didn't require much thought (at least I hope it didn't). Ergo; the line was written for a "cheap laugh at the expense of the city of Compton's negative image".

    This is what I meant by "dancing around". :)

    If this is supposed to explain your theory that the Compton line was "social commentary", then what was the point of the commentary? The Trek episode to which you refer above had a definite point. What point do you think the Compton line attempting to make?
    Dude, come on. :lol:
    Now, this is an interesting question. I wonder if there was any push back on this line from any of the other writers on staff. I also wonder if there are any black or minority writers of any kind on this show's staff (for season 1).

    I've said from the firs episodes of the Orville that the show is much better off when Seth does not write. He does seem to be a good idea guy, but his actual writing is a drag on the show's credibility. But the problem with that is, Seth's fans want jokes, so what to do?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  20. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    I guess I'd consider myself a fan, and all I want is an entertaining show. :shrug:
     
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