Rey and the sad devolution of the female character

[Kibbin]

Ani didn't consciously tap into the force until training with Ben and Luke certainly couldn't cloud peoples minds until years after learning about the Jedi. Heck he struggled to face down a yeti when he needed to pull his own sword out of the snow.

The problem was that these are all standard abilities to us the viewing audience. If they're going to rely on the old stand by powers they can't wow us without decent writing. Otherwise they need to flash them by quickly without build up or we'd complain if it took Rey as long to mind wipe someone as it did Luke. Or certainly average Joe Public would. Hence why she goes through the Jedi play book so fast.

 

[Trekkin]

Believe me, there's plenty of essays/rants about how weak the other characters are (Rose Tico anyone? Emasculated Poe? Finn as black stepin fetchit slapstick anyone?). And JJ seems to agree considering how Episode IX is shaping up to be a cavalcade of familiar faces as force ghosts and flashbacks. But don't let me disrupt the dupster fire in progress.

There’s ‘plenty’ of ‘essays’ about how the earth is flat, and reptilians are ruling the world. Certainly than there are complaining about...Star Wars emasculation. So all hail our scaly overlords?

(Also, you need to stop saying that word boys. No one gives a second thought to your ‘masculinity,’ until you star bleating that the nasty Disney women caused your dicks to shrivel into nothingness. At which point, if becomes hilarious. You’d think Star Wars fans would be more clicked-on about self-fulfilling prophecies...)

Anyway, that’s why real essays list their evidence, sources of information, etc for the reader’s verification purposes. Because ‘someone else also said this!’ doesn’t actually mean jack-shit. Law of averages would make it weird if someone else hadn’t.

As for Abrams, he planned for more Force Ghosts and ‘familiar faces’ to appear in TFA too. That didn’t end up happening in the final product, because it turns out movie-making is a bit more complicated than fans gathering flotsam on gossip sites seem to think. Meanwhile TLJ, the very movie your complaining about, is the one that had the most cameos. Whilst out-and-out promising that certain characters would return later. So even the bad foundations of ‘I saw a few set photos and think that I know the story!’ aside, how is Abrams not building off TLJ again?

But don’t let me disrupt your...dumpster fire in progress. Now there’s a poor, tortured, Frankenstein’s monster of a phrase.

 

[Jayson1]

If people do want to compare Luke and Rey I can point to one thing I don't think I have seen mentioned but what about how they emotionally deal with them getting powers. Luke comes off as being fascinated by the force and having a sense of wonder about it. He wants to learn more. He is wanting to seek out adventure from the first moment we see him by wanting to go join the Academy.
Rey on the otherhand it comes off like it's all a burden. She doesn't even have a Aunt and Uncle for family. She is more of a disinterested loner who is pulled along by the plot into one action set piece after another. She does bond some with Solo and FInn but she still feels like a loner in how she carries herself where as Luke is a open book with his emotions to a point of being naive.

I guess it comes down to which kind of personality you find more interesting and more suited for the movie they are in. I have no idea if this all fits into Jedi Training time tables and force power comparisons but then I don't much care about that angle from my perspective. I think the moment where she fights Kylo with the light saber at the end of "Force Awakens" was kind of cool actually but I can't say it made me love the character anymore than the awesome light saber fight in "Phantom Menace" made me love those characters either. A cool moment is a cool moment but I need more from a character than being a Jedi who has earned their marks into being a Jedi by doing all the plot things needed to become a legit Jedi.

Jason

 

[Trekkin]

Funnily enough, they switch positions for their sophomore movies.

Luke sees Yoda’s training as a burden that he needs to blitz through ASAP. He thinks he has a pretty good grasp already because he can repeat Obi-Wans words, and improvise a few tricks wholesale out of his butt (for eg. Pulling the lightsaber to him at the start.) He nearly gets himself killed because he runs off, and ignores Yoda.

Rey is bitter that Luke won’t provide more training. When asked what she knows, she fesses up total ignorance of the theory(?), and that she can’t really do more than describe what she’s seen others do (lifting rocks.) When she runs off and nearly dies, it’s because she’s copying her teacher exactly.

By showing how both extremes bit their heroes in the butt, it’s like finding balance is a running theme for these movies or something.

 

[Tuskin38]

But Anakin and Luke where special, a normal training to become a Jedi take approximately 25 years.

Rey might be special too.

She might be that awakening in the force mentioned in TFA.

Remember Luke's reaction to her power in TLJ as well.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think she is a Mary Sue, either. I think the Mary Sue label though is often just a rationalization people use instead of just saying they found her to be boring. It's not enough for people to just dislike a character but they need to explain why they dislike a character when "She/He was boring" proably says it best. So you start using plot stuff, stuff that would be ignored if people liked the character to explain why the character doesn't work. Problem is that even if the story was constructed more in the way they like yet the character was still the same character they would still find her boring.

I find it interesting that all the most memorable modern "Star Wars" characters seem to always be the droids. That is something I think everyone has liked in all the modern movies is the new droid characters. If only they could make the humans as interesting as the droids then I think people would be singing a different tune about the Disney era. BB-8,K-2SO and L3-37 was the best character in all their respected movies. Now there is a surefire way to make a modern beloved "Star Wars" movie. DO one about these 3 droids teaming with with a new Lando and going off to to some kind of adventure and people would fall in love with that movie IMO.

Jason

As much as I love the droids, BB-8 especially, they do not hold a candle to Rey and Finn for me. I have enjoyed Luke from the beginning and found him an endlessly fascinating character, one I can readily identify with. Rey is a close second, occupying that special place of wanting to see someone taken from nothing and becoming great.

By showing how both extremes bit their heroes in the butt, it’s like finding balance is a running theme for these movies or something.

It's weird...

 

[Jayson1]

Funnily enough, they switch positions for their sophomore movies.

Luke sees Yoda’s training as a burden that he needs to blitz through ASAP. He thinks he has a pretty good grasp already because he can repeat Obi-Wans words, and improvise a few tricks wholesale out of his butt (for eg. Pulling the lightsaber to him at the start.) He nearly gets himself killed because he runs off, and ignores Yoda.

Rey is bitter that Luke won’t provide more training. When asked what she knows, she fesses up total ignorance of the...theory(?), and that she can’t really do more than describe what she’s seen others do (lifting rocks.) When she runs off and nearly dies, it’s because she’s copying her teacher exactly.

By showing how both extremes bit their heroes in the butt, it’s like finding balance is a running theme for these movies or something.

That's true. That's why I like the Luke and Rey stuff for the most part. Of course it does bring in more comparisons. Is the Luke/Rey stuff as much fun as the Luke/Yoda stuff. With Yoda coming in and doing the Obi-One stuff. Also is Dagabou a more interesting location than this secluded island. Even here the power of the old movies become very strong. I mean isn't everyones favorite part basically Luke talking to Yodi and Luke talking R2-D2 and seeing the old Leia Hologram. People are very much into the fan service stuff of these movies but I do wonder what people think about the other stuff in them.

Jason

 

[Trekkin]

I’m a rebel. I liked Chewbacca’s scenes with the Porgs.

More seriously, most professional critics point to Rey’s scenes with Kylo as a highlight. Which is pretty much anti-leaning-on-nostalgia.

 

[Jayson1]

As much as I love the droids, BB-8 especially, they do not hold a candle to Rey and Finn for me. I have enjoyed Luke from the beginning and found him an endlessly fascinating character, one I can readily identify with. Rey is a close second, occupying that special place of wanting to see someone taken from nothing and becoming great.

It's weird...

Finn to me is the character with the most potential but i'm not sure they use him right. A former storm trooper turned good is something that you can bring some interesting insight into the movies. We don't really know what life is like for a storm trooper except when they are failing to hit anything with their blasters. Also his best stuff is with Poe but in the first movie they are trying to build a friendship or romance with Rey and then in the second one they try and pair him off with Rose Tico. I think the whole Casino stuff would have worked better if it was Poe and Finn on that mission. If they wanted to do a mutiny thing they should have brought back Lando and have it be between him and Leia since they have history and people won't know which side they should be on.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

I’m a rebel. I liked Chewbacca’s scenes with the Porgs.

More seriously, most professional critics point to Rey’s scenes with Kylo as a highlight. Which is pretty much anti-leaning-on-nostalgia.

I like the Porgs but then again once again your using people love of the old movies buy using Chewie. Try that sceen with one of those other aliens on the planet.

With Rey and Kylo I like the scenes with and him were they kill Snoke but i'm not sure if that is part of the training scene stuff. In fact I think that might be my favorite Rey and Kylo scenes in the movies. That might be the first time I cared about her character.

Jason

 

[Trekkin]

Try that sceen with one of those other aliens on the planet.

One of my favourite scenes in this series had Ewoks using Stormtroopers decapitated heads as bongo drums.

The EU then revealed that the Ewoks ate rest of the corpses.

Turns out, I can put up with quiet a bit of WTF-uckery in these silly family movies.

 

[JD]

But Anakin and Luke where special, a normal training to become a Jedi take approximately 25 years.

So it's OK for them to be special, but with Rey it's unbelievable.

I’m a rebel. I liked Chewbacca’s scenes with the Porgs.

More seriously, most professional critics point to Rey’s scenes with Kylo as a highlight. Which is pretty much anti-leaning-on-nostalgia.

Rey and Kylo's relationship was one of the most interesting parts of the movie.

 

[Jayson1]

One of my favourite scenes in this series had Ewoks using Stormtroopers decapitated heads as bongo drums.

The EU then revealed that the Ewoks ate rest of the corpses.

Turns out, I can put up with quiet a bit of WTF-uckery in these silly family movies.

I think I heard that also about Ewoks. It's weird how I never thought about that when I was younger. So maybe the final scene isn't Vadar getting a viking style funeral but is actually a cookout! Did they stop with the corpses? I don't think things ended well for those guys who surrender at the end.


Jason

 

[Trekkin]

They tried to eat Han after taking him prisoner. Death by being slowly spit-roasted whilst still alive.

So yeah. Those Stormtroopers and officers were super-fucked unless the Rebel’s decided to save their bacon.

 

[fireproof78]

I’m a rebel. I liked Chewbacca’s scenes with the Porgs.

More seriously, most professional critics point to Rey’s scenes with Kylo as a highlight. Which is pretty much anti-leaning-on-nostalgia.

Same here. I really enjoy the Porgs.

Finn to me is the character with the most potential but i'm not sure they use him right. A former storm trooper turned good is something that you can bring some interesting insight into the movies. We don't really know what life is like for a storm trooper except when they are failing to hit anything with their blasters. Also his best stuff is with Poe but in the first movie they are trying to build a friendship or romance with Rey and then in the second one they try and pair him off with Rose Tico. I think the whole Casino stuff would have worked better if it was Poe and Finn on that mission. If they wanted to do a mutiny thing they should have brought back Lando and have it be between him and Leia since they have history and people won't know which side they should be on.

Jason

I disagree that the focus on Finn should only be as his status as a former stormtrooper, any more than we focus on Rey as a former scavenger. Finn is a person whose life is one of isolation, a place of black and white thinking. His experiences on the outside world are a bit intense for him, which is why his relationships with Rey and Rose come across as romantic but Finn is also trying to learn how to establish regular, non-military, relationships. So, I enjoy that awkwardness because it makes sense based upon his background.

I don't have a problem with either pairing. But, I'm regarding them as a firm romantic match up, similar to how Leia was a possible connection with Luke or Han.

I like the Porgs but then again once again your using people love of the old movies buy using Chewie. Try that sceen with one of those other aliens on the planet.

*imagines it*
Still works.

I think I heard that also about Ewoks. It's weird how I never thought about that when I was younger. So maybe the final scene isn't Vadar getting a viking style funeral but is actually a cookout! Did they stop with the corpses? I don't think things ended well for those guys who surrender at the end.


Jason

ROTJ is probably the film with the greatest of unfortunate and unintended consequences, between the meat at the Ewok roast, or the sheer amount of debris from the Death Star II impacting the Endor moon.

 

[Ithekro]

ROTJ is probably the film with the greatest of unfortunate and unintended consequences, between the meat at the Ewok roast, or the sheer amount of debris from the Death Star II impacting the Endor moon.

Both of which I believe were addressed in the "Forces of Destiny" cartoon shorts. The Rebels gave the Ewoks food from the fleet so they wouldn't eat the captured Imperial prisoners. And the fleet was using their shields, tractor beams, and weapons to prevent debris from the battle hitting the planet.

 

[fireproof78]

Both of which I believe were addressed in the "Forces of Destiny" cartoon shorts. The Rebels gave the Ewoks food from the fleet so they wouldn't eat the captured Imperial prisoners. And the fleet was using their shields, tractor beams, and weapons to prevent debris from the battle hitting the planet.

How many years did that take for them to address it? Because "Endor Holocaust" theories have abounded for years.

 

[Infern0]

It’s fine when a man is suddenly and instantly talented at something, when it’s a woman it’s because of “forced diversity” or she’s a Mary Sue, which is just a talented female (ignore the actual meaning of the term). The penis has all the power.

Wow...

 

[Infern0]

Almost being the word. Emo rat killer should have been dead in seconds.

Palpatine had him beat the second he started trying. He was toying with luke and only Vader saved him. Also the only reason luke beat Vader as I stated before was because he became frenzied and Vader deep down didn't actually want to kill Luke.

Now granted Ren may be a wimp and just not a very good fighter which would go some way to explain why an untrained combatant can beat him.

But luke in the original trilogy was always being helped out by his crew, obi wan saves him from Tuskens in ANH, Han saves him from being shot down in ANH, Han saves him from freezing to death in ESB, Vader whoops his butt in ESB and he only survives by running away, Leia saves him from falling off cloud city in ESB. Han bumbling and taking out Fett by accident saves him in ROJ, Palpatine kicks his butt and he only survives because Vader saves him in ROJ

i just listed 6 examples where he is literally saved from death by others. There's probably more.

Rey however can basically do everything and is superior to everyone.

Again, I'm FEMALE so this isn't some sexist thing, they did Rey character an injustice by giving her basically no vulnerability, watching her is like playing a game with God mode on.

 

[Ithekro]

How many years did that take for them to address it? Because "Endor Holocaust" theories have abounded for years.

It was clear as early as "Heir to the Empire" an "Dark Force Rising" that Endor and the Ewoks survived the explosion of the Second Death Star. Leia went there in the second novel of the series after suggesting a meeting there in the first novel. At that was the first set of novels of the old EU in the 1990s. I seem to recall occasional references to Ewoks by various Alliance heroes who had been there in the aftermath of the battle, like Wedge Antilles.