Hmmm, I thought we saw Phaser I's before we saw Phaser II's. I remember remarking the first time we see a Phaser II.
Production Order Group Viewing 2018
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Hmmm, I thought we saw Phaser I's before we saw Phaser II's. I remember remarking the first time we see a Phaser II.
Yes. Or any plot.
Interesting that so many alien races look like humans and so few look like Vulcans.
Well, except the heat of reentry comes from the speed of the object hitting the atmosphere, and a straight drop from 0 relative velocity wouldn't get you up to flaming-reentry speed, but... drama.
Yes! I know it's off topic, but that cool BSG scene was all but destroyed by flaming ignorance.
That is an interesting interpretation.
I got the impression that the story was an allegory about totalitarianism and communist dictatorship. Landru could have been a metaphor for Stalin, Mao, Castro and their ilk. The episode was pro individual liberty and freedom. The episode aired at the time of the cold war. There was a clash of ideologies.
The "body" might be another way of referring to the collective. I guess they might have been the equivalent of the Borg of their time.
Are you of the body?Is what a totalitarian and communist society offers really paradise? This episode had a similar theme to "This Side of Paradise".
On a side note, I wonder which Hollywood backlot the outdoor town scenes were filmed in.
Regarding Landru, I always thought that he resembled the portrait of Andrew Jackson on the 20 dollar bill.
Joy be with you. Peace and contentment.
I'm thinking "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" for the first appearance of Phaser I.
Close, but I'm pretty sure it's "The Corbomite Manuever."
I love Return of the Archons. It's either in my top ten or close. The story has some wonderful scene fiction elements, the dialogue is terrific, and Kirk's awesome confidence throughout is fantastic. The guest actors are all very good. Poor Tula is haunting.
I never have understood the "hollow tube - no mechanism" line. So they killed Tamar with telepathy? Okay, but why does that work on Sulu? For that matter, if the Lawgivers can absorb Sulu, why is the absorption chamber needed?
How is Reger immune to absorption? Fascinating line.
Lindstrom, correctly, has a blue shirt.
The first Kirk v. The Computer episode and one of the more subtle We Don't Do Paradise episodes.
I never have understood the "hollow tube - no mechanism" line. So they killed Tamar with telepathy? Okay, but why does that work on Sulu? For that matter, if the Lawgivers can absorb Sulu, why is the absorption chamber needed?
How is Reger immune to absorption? Fascinating line.
Lindstrom, correctly, has a blue shirt.
The first Kirk v. The Computer episode and one of the more subtle We Don't Do Paradise episodes.
I always considered that that honor goes to "What Are Little Girls Made of?" in which Kirk causes his robot duplicate to be constructed essentially with embedded malware so as to betray itself with an overt expression of bigotry.
True, and he talks Ruk into action also. Good call.
Right!
For Phaser One, I know they were in The Enemy Within. I mentioned it as a bonefide blooper that Kirk-light was holding one and Kirk-dark had a Phaser Two.
I want to comment further on @Poltargyst 's post but I don't feel comfortable discussing religious beliefs in this forum.
I will say, these people were bereft of much of their mental faculties, as if strongly drugged or even lobotomized. I don't think anyone reading this, not me for sure, would think this is "paradise". I'll admit I have anxiety problems, sometimes panic attacks and I'm prone also to fits of depression, but I wouldn't want to have most of my brain removed just to feel better or be on thorozine so I can just stare at the wall 8 hours a day. This is why Kirk wanted to interfere, these people were almost not people anymore. (BTW, this is a very good contrast to Capt. R. Tracey's behavior as we were discussing in the Omega thread.) And I find Spock's statements about it being paradise Illogical. Paradise is such a vaguely defined idea but it seems ridiculous that Spock, who strives to learn so much of his scientific interests, would attach paradise to these people's condition any more than the people that Dr. Adams mind sifted. They behave very much like Lethe and Adams is somewhat like Landru, the main difference to me being Adams seemed to be building minions and Landru just wanted people to stop hurting each other, but then the "festival"
The Festival always confused me, but I think it comes down to 2 things, one that the lobotomizing of the people reduces the sex drive to nil, after all sex drive leads not only to mating but also competition, so this is the only way to sustain the population, and two, going back to that flawed philosophy that destruction keeps people employed, as in they are going to spend the next x amount of time mindlessly cleaning up the festival and fixing the windows and furniture to keep them busy.
I think Kirk made the right move here.
BTW, sometimes I like to shout festival and run around a little when I'm feeling extra silly.
I want to comment further on @Poltargyst 's post but I don't feel comfortable discussing religious beliefs in this forum.
I will say, these people were bereft of much of their mental faculties, as if strongly drugged or even lobotomized. I don't think anyone reading this, not me for sure, would think this is "paradise". I'll admit I have anxiety problems, sometimes panic attacks and I'm prone also to fits of depression, but I wouldn't want to have most of my brain removed just to feel better or be on thorozine so I can just stare at the wall 8 hours a day. This is why Kirk wanted to interfere, these people were almost not people anymore. (BTW, this is a very good contrast to Capt. R. Tracey's behavior as we were discussing in the Omega thread.) And I find Spock's statements about it being paradise Illogical. Paradise is such a vaguely defined idea but it seems ridiculous that Spock, who strives to learn so much of his scientific interests, would attach paradise to these people's condition any more than the people that Dr. Adams mind sifted. They behave very much like Lethe and Adams is somewhat like Landru, the main difference to me being Adams seemed to be building minions and Landru just wanted people to stop hurting each other, but then the "festival"
The Festival always confused me, but I think it comes down to 2 things, one that the lobotomizing of the people reduces the sex drive to nil, after all sex drive leads not only to mating but also competition, so this is the only way to sustain the population, and two, going back to that flawed philosophy that destruction keeps people employed, as in they are going to spend the next x amount of time mindlessly cleaning up the festival and fixing the windows and furniture to keep them busy.
I think Kirk made the right move here.
BTW, sometimes I like to shout festival and run around a little when I'm feeling extra silly.
Yes of course. "Phaser weapon" Scott says as they kit up, perhaps for the audience's benefit. Thanks!
The "body" might be another way of referring to the collective. I guess they might have been the equivalent of the Borg of their time.
If you did want to compare it to religion, Christians are referred to as the body of Christ. But true Christians would not collectively be/support alternating between sedate aimless wandering and violent rampages.
And if you compare Beta III and Omicron Ceti III to heaven, it doesn't work. In Christianity, people choose to believe in Jesus Christ and therefore be with him in paradise through an act of choice, their free will.
Unlike in these episodes, where the planets' citizens are influenced in effect by a drug/foreign substance in one case (TSOP) and a computer control akin to possession in the other (TROTA). It's interesting to note that in the Bible, 3 is the number of divine perfection (though neither society is really that), and both planets are the 3rd in their system.
RETURN OF THE ARCHONS
A fairly by-the-numbers mystery/investigation type of story; efficient but not the most captivating episode. Some interesting philosophical concepts touched upon but never fully explored. A fairly “standard” Star Trek story with many of the tropes associated with the series.
Other thoughts:
Phasers can be set on “wide field” to stun multiple opponents at once
They can also bore through stone (which cools instantly, of course)
It seems the absorbing chamber complex was built by the same people who constructed the android caverns on planet “Exo-3” (those trapezoid doors are a dead giveaway).
That control podium is familiar too, very tantalus-isingly so…
The Landru computer itself however, seems to be of a new design.
However, given the apparent ease at which misaligned warp drives and throw a ship into a time warp (we've seen this in two separate episodes so far) it's not to hard to imagine that the "humans" on this planet are in fact humans - the descendants of an earth colonial expedition that got misplaced in time.
So, costumes are made by the environmental analysis department? Are they also the ship's clothiers? You'd think this would be more the department of the quartermaster - perhaps we'll get some more information on this process if the crew ever need Nazi uniforms
Without the knowledge of those deleted scenes, I noticed that most men wear what looks like early 19th century designs, but the older characters all wear clothes from around a century later. I wondered if it was symbolic of how their culture is regressing...
Regardless, it is nice to see that the crew thought to fabricate native clothing for undercover missions. I guess their stint in the 1960s was educational in more ways than one!
As for Mr Luster's words about "festival"; already terms like "Bacchanalia" were indeed originally linked to religion, I think they would have been used here as watershed-friendly 1960s coded words for "sex orgy" much like Nurse Chapel used "geisha" for "sex robot" in What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
Also, that bag on Spock’s head is just the worst and just makes him even more conspicuous. Thankfully he seems to realise this and gives up wearing the hood soon after beaming down
Regarding the first appearance of the phaser-1, it is admittedly a swift manoeuvre when Scotty hands Kirk his "phaser weapon" but it is clearly in Kirk's hand as he explores Balok's ship
A fairly by-the-numbers mystery/investigation type of story; efficient but not the most captivating episode. Some interesting philosophical concepts touched upon but never fully explored. A fairly “standard” Star Trek story with many of the tropes associated with the series.
Other thoughts:
- Did Kirk spend their night on the planet sleeping standing up? What a guy!
- Is this the first time we see Mr Scott in command of the ship?
- Landru appears in the form of a 3D communication hologram, projected into a cave without any apparatus. Kirk seems only mildly impressed, probably because it is anachronistic to the level of technology on this planet.
Sorry Discovery haters, TOS did it first
- Once inside Landru’s audience chamber, Kirk and Spock disrobe like a couple of prequel Jedi Knights!
Phasers can be set on “wide field” to stun multiple opponents at once
They can also bore through stone (which cools instantly, of course)
It seems the absorbing chamber complex was built by the same people who constructed the android caverns on planet “Exo-3” (those trapezoid doors are a dead giveaway).
That control podium is familiar too, very tantalus-isingly so…
The Landru computer itself however, seems to be of a new design.
Assumptions that are then treated as fact are Kirk and Spock's bread and butter - seen most recently in The Alternative Factor and all that nonsense about an antimatter universe
Indeed - is this planet another copy of Earth, like Miri’s planet? There’s simply no comment on the style of buildings, the clothes, the technology etc.
However, given the apparent ease at which misaligned warp drives and throw a ship into a time warp (we've seen this in two separate episodes so far) it's not to hard to imagine that the "humans" on this planet are in fact humans - the descendants of an earth colonial expedition that got misplaced in time.
Thanks for sharing these deleted scenes, they shed a lot of light on the writer's original intentions - especially Sulu's odd lines about his clothes!The below excerpts are from the first draft script dated Nov. 1, 1966. As an FYI, Luster in the first draft became Lindstrom in the shooting draft, Agnon became O'Neil, and Beta 3000 became Beta III.
From Act I:
Btw, Saturnalia and Bacchanalia are deity-honoring festivals. Their Wiki entries reveal more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacchanalia
Both of these questions are answered in other scenes in Act I:
So, costumes are made by the environmental analysis department? Are they also the ship's clothiers? You'd think this would be more the department of the quartermaster - perhaps we'll get some more information on this process if the crew ever need Nazi uniforms
Without the knowledge of those deleted scenes, I noticed that most men wear what looks like early 19th century designs, but the older characters all wear clothes from around a century later. I wondered if it was symbolic of how their culture is regressing...
Regardless, it is nice to see that the crew thought to fabricate native clothing for undercover missions. I guess their stint in the 1960s was educational in more ways than one!
As for Mr Luster's words about "festival"; already terms like "Bacchanalia" were indeed originally linked to religion, I think they would have been used here as watershed-friendly 1960s coded words for "sex orgy" much like Nurse Chapel used "geisha" for "sex robot" in What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
I imagine that "festival" is like a release valve for the pent up emotions kept in check the rest of the year. Any emotionally retentive culture would probably have a form of this, particularly when it comes to mating. A time when emotions run amok, if you will?
Not necessary when the natives really don't care what he looks like!
Also, that bag on Spock’s head is just the worst and just makes him even more conspicuous. Thankfully he seems to realise this and gives up wearing the hood soon after beaming down
Regarding the first appearance of the phaser-1, it is admittedly a swift manoeuvre when Scotty hands Kirk his "phaser weapon" but it is clearly in Kirk's hand as he explores Balok's ship
Spock having a "Hello there!" moment? I imagine that "festival" is like a release valve for the pent up emotions kept in check the rest of the year. Any emotionally retentive culture would probably have a form of this, particularly when it comes to mating. A time when emotions run amok, if you will?
Funny that Spock didn't make the connection later in that episode.
You guys are only on "Return of the Archons"? Thank God. I thought I missed out on most of the series. I love "Return of the Archons" because I've had some computer problems lately and it's always great to see Kirk destroy one.
See the pic posted.
Yes. And it's awesome.
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