Shelby

[Mojochi]

Why should Riker be involved in the Borg fight? He's just a frontline officer who for that very reason hasn't had much time to get down deep on the subject. If something can be established about the Borg at this early date, it's that fighting them with starships isn't likely to work too well. Debrief Riker for what he knows, but then send him back to do the good work of gathering more data for the Borg experts.

I'm not saying they should necessarily expect him to be a go-to choice for Borg detail, but if someone in his position were actually doing what's in their best interest, as someone wanting to be a captain, the fact that he'd been at J-25, AND now just sat in the big chair during the saving of Earth, he's in a unique position to sell himself as someone to pretty much take one of the most prominent roles in that initiative. It would be easy to become the face of the Borg front, after this, especially since they're already on their 3rd command offer anyhow

At that moment, there is nobody in a better position to lead the initiative on how to deal with starship engagements with Borg. It certainly would shut Shelby the hell up, with her smart-assed "Shadow of a great man" comments, if he was henceforth the Borg hero

 

[Timo]

I'm not saying they should necessarily expect him to be a go-to choice for Borg detail, but if someone in his position were actually doing what's in their best interest, as someone wanting to be a captain, the fact that he'd been at J-25, AND now just sat in the big chair during the saving of Earth, he's in a unique position to sell himself as someone to pretty much take one of the most prominent roles in that initiative. It would be easy to become the face of the Borg front, after this, especially since they're already on their 3rd command offer anyhow

Very true. Riker himself certainly is the biggest obstacle on the path of William T. Riker getting promoted. Possibly because of self-confidence issues (he does realize he has been promoted in the past just because he sucked up to an evil boss), possibly because he wants decades of prestigious starship command and nothing can ever top the E-D. Possibly because of ongoing daddy issues, Pressman and DeSoto having proven poor substitutes but Picard holding promise. This has often been discussed, and all of it may be taken to contribute in the end.

It doesn't necessarily follow that this would be Starfleet's factual loss, or that Starfleet would hold Riker's failure to self-promote against him.

At that moment, there is nobody in a better position to lead the initiative on how to deal with starship engagements with Borg. It certainly would shut Shelby the hell up, with her smart-assed "Shadow of a great man" comments, if he was henceforth the Borg hero

Again agreed. Then again, Shelby is available right there, too. And she was there when Starfleet triumphed, while Riker additionally has only witnessed defeat. So again, Starfleet might feel there's no great loss if Riker doesn't see what's best for his career.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mojochi]

Very true. Riker himself certainly is the biggest obstacle on the path of William T. Riker getting promoted. Possibly because of self-confidence issues (he does realize he has been promoted in the past just because he sucked up to an evil boss), possibly because he wants decades of prestigious starship command and nothing can ever top the E-D. Possibly because of ongoing daddy issues, Pressman and DeSoto having proven poor substitutes but Picard holding promise. This has often been discussed, and all of it may be taken to contribute in the end.

It doesn't necessarily follow that this would be Starfleet's factual loss, or that Starfleet would hold Riker's failure to self-promote against him.



Again agreed. Then again, Shelby is available right there, too. And she was there when Starfleet triumphed, while Riker additionally has only witnessed defeat. So again, Starfleet might feel there's no great loss if Riker doesn't see what's best for his career.

Timo Saloniemi

Honestly, there's no reason to think Starfleet couldn't do without all of our heroes. It's a pretty big outfit. They'd probably be just fine without promoting up any of them

Heck, someone like Shelby could surpass Riker pretty easily after this. It's not Starfleet's loss, & it's not something they'd hold against Riker, but it does cast him in an unflattering light to an extent

 

[Qonundrum]

As if many people didn't hate the Captain of the Voyager that we got........

I liked Janeway, but after seeing TBOBW again, it's also a shame they didn't go for Shelby's angle. Great, now I'm going to have dreams of Shelby squaring off with the Borg for seven seasons... the other downer is that they might not end up with 7 had they made a Shelby show... Ryan and Mulgrew had great on-screen chemistry even if there was personal animosity, we don't know if the same would hold true for other character pairings.

 

[Qonundrum]

It would have been cool if Shelby had appeared after TBOBW at some point.

('Descent' maybe?)

Her in "Descent" would have been more than decent...

 

[bolak]

I have a copy of TV Magazine around that was printed for the premier of the second part of that episode. In it, it said the fans were on their edge with how Shelby would be handled. It said NOTHING about hating her.

I wasn't plugged into the fan-scene at the time but my school friends and I spent all that Summer wondering how BoBW2 would play-out. It seemed that they might 'do a Yar' and kill-off some of the regulars. Certainly Picard seemed to be a goner, there was no way they could write him back in as a normal human...?

So Shelby, abrasive as she was, seemed certain as XO next to Riker or even Data.

 

[Mojochi]

I wasn't plugged into the fan-scene at the time but my school friends and I spent all that Summer wondering how BoBW2 would play-out. It seemed that they might 'do a Yar' and kill-off some of the regulars. Certainly Picard seemed to be a goner, there was no way they could write him back in as a normal human.

I hadn't dismissed Picard so easily at the time. Weirder comebacks have happened in Star Trek (Namely Spock). However, I was convinced something big was going to have to happen. Either Picard was going to die or remain Locutus, & we were looking at the new captain & XO in Riker & Shelby, or Picard was going to be saved, BY the team of Riker & Shelby, with the former who had just been offered his 3rd command, with a lot of questions about his refusing to accept them, & the latter being a well referenced go-getter, who wanted the #1 job with Picard.

Because Stewart was so damn good & so highly linked to the success of the show to that point, I was leaning toward the 2nd option. Everyone wins the day, & because he's a hero, Riker gets his own prestigious command, & is replaced by Shelby, who kind of fills in the now vacant role of the no-nonsense female bridge officer, that Yar use to fill. Even back then I couldn't help but notice how lopsided the gender distribution had gotten, & thought they might be on the make to fix that a bit, & it honestly wouldn't have been a bad way to go. As everyone notes, Riker's character stalled quite a lot after that, because it's just inescapable that he should have a command by now, & the show did need a female bridge officer in a leadership role

 

[thribs]

The whole point of the character was there just as a red herring. This was before the internet so people had no idea whether Picard was going to survive or not.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

It's not my goal to derail this thread but Wikipedia says that Shelby was one of the candidates to take over Voyager after Bujold quit, that could've been interesting.

Would it have actually been Shelby though, or just the same actress and character type? Would it have been another Nic Locarno / Tom Paris type situation, where the studio would've had to pay royalties to TBOBW writers everytime Shelby appeared (presumably every episode if she was a main cast member on VOY)?

 

[thribs]

Wasn’t she in that popular New Frontier series? That’s probably why they left her alone so it wouldn’t interfere with that.

 

[The Wormhole]

Would it have actually been Shelby though, or just the same actress and character type? Would it have been another Nic Locarno / Tom Paris type situation, where the studio would've had to pay royalties to TBOBW writers everytime Shelby appeared (presumably every episode if she was a main cast member on VOY)?

That wouldn't be an issue with Shelby since she was created by Voyager's co-creator, Michael Piller. Piller would be able to use his own character however he wanted. And since he continued collecting royalties off of Voyager even after he left the show, the fact he's being paid anyway would make paying him for Shelby a non-issue.

Wasn’t she in that popular New Frontier series? That’s probably why they left her alone so it wouldn’t interfere with that.

That most certainly is not the reason.

 

[thribs]

Maybe he was a fan and didn’t want to interfere?

 

[The Wormhole]

You aren't seriously suggesting the reason Shelby wasn't considered for Voyager's captain is because of the New Frontier novels, are you? Are you even aware Voyager premiered two years before the first New Frontier book was published? I can assure, at no point during Voyager's development was any consideration made to the New Frontier novels, since the New Frontier novels didn't even exist yet.

 

[thribs]

I wasn’t aware you meant for captain of Voyager. I haven’t been following the thread.
I just mean use her in any way at all.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

That wouldn't be an issue with Shelby since she was created by Voyager's co-creator, Michael Piller. Piller would be able to use his own character however he wanted. And since he continued collecting royalties off of Voyager even after he left the show, the fact he's being paid anyway would make paying him for Shelby a non-issue.

Ah, I see. Still, Shelby wasn't exactly portrayed as a very likeable character, so I can see why they wouldn't use her as the main lead on VOY.