Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[Poltargyst]

Court Martial

Just thinking about the timeline. So we recover the officers from the Galileo before it burns up, we race off to deliver the medicine. Shall I assume this "jettisoning the pod during the ion storm" business happened shortly thereafter?

The Commodore mentions the starbase is working on the Intrepid, the starship manned entirely by Vulcans as I recall. Is there a Vulcan crew hanging around somewhere on base waiting for the repairs to finish? Or has the ship not been manned yet?

Well, Kirk's friends were certainly unfriendly. There should be a scene where they apologize to Kirk.

"Not a man in a million could do what we did, command a starship." Makes Kirk sound elite indeed.

Areel Shaw. We should be keeping a list of Kirk's old flames. Nice to see a woman with some authority and an important job, although she's still only a Lt. She should be a Lt. Cmdr.

Just thinking about the show JAG. Areel's a JAG officer!

Cogley sitting in the courtroom writing on a piece of paper with a pencil. I can relate. I still prefer to write things down on paper than type them into a device.

Spock is a "Vulcanian" this episode.

The ensign calls Areel "Ma'am", though Saavik is called "Sir" in WoK.

Awful lot of speculation in that "Kirk hated Finney because he knew Finney hated him" line of questioning to McCoy. Areel never actually produces any evidence there. Cogley should have objected and cross examined McCoy.

Ion storms create a lot of mischief in this show. Murasaki 312 last week, this episode, Mirror Mirror. Is the Mutara Nebula in WoK ionized, is that why capabilities are limited in there? Ionization is trouble for technology in this show.

Why did Cogley get to call Kirk before the prosecution rested?

Cogley seems shocked by the video evidence, but as defense attorney he surely saw it before trial, right?

Nice of McCoy to give Spock the benefit of the doubt re: playing chess.

Why would altering the records affect the chess-playing abilities of the computer? Would it in an 1960's-era computer?

As a kid, I was always so impressed by Cogley's big speech, though I never knew what it was about. So it's about convincing the panel to let Kirk face the computer aboard ship.

I'm sometimes puzzled by how sensors work. Couldn't they just do a sensor sweep of the ship to find Finney without the heart gizmo?

Hello....CAPTAIN. Nothing to say...CAPTAIN. Always liked his inflection there.

Sloppy of Kirk to let Finney get the drop on him like that.

What's Finney's rank? Lt. Cmdr? He's got two full stripes like Spock, a full Commander.

Spock takes navigation, then Uhura again. Is that her third time now?

Kirk's manly shoulder cannot be contained in a mere Starfleet jersey!

Orbits decay really quickly in this show. Why not just take the Enterprise out to a wider orbit to begin with?

Areel's not the hottest woman in TOS, but she's got a certain something. I like her.

Not a real favorite episode of mine, but good to see again.

Alien Watch: All humans this week except for Spock so the list remains.

Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

I have always been puzzled by Cogley's remark that computers only contain "homogenized" versions of important legal precedents. My goodness, you can find a copy of the US Constitution online by just Googling. I guess they couldn't foresee that when this episode was written in the 1960s.

 

[Shawnster]

The episode really epitomizes the entire TOS attitude toward computers, AI, etc...

COGLEY: A computer, huh? I got one of these in my office. Contains all the precedents. The synthesis of all the great legal decisions written throughout time. I never use it.

COGLEY: This is where the law is. Not in that homogenised, pasteurised, synthesiser. Do you want to know the law, the ancient concepts in their own language, Learn the intent of the men who wrote them, from Moses to the tribunal of Alpha 3? Books.

COGLEY: I'd be delighted to, sir, now that I've got something human to talk about. Rights, sir, human rights. The Bible, the Code of Hammurabi and of Justinian, Magna Carta, the Constitution of the United States, Fundamental Declarations of the Martian colonies, the Statutes of Alpha Three. Gentlemen, these documents all speak of rights. Rights of the accused to a trial by his peers, to be represented by counsel, the rights of cross-examination, but most importantly, the right to be confronted by the witnesses against him, a right to which my client has been denied.

COGLEY: All but one. The most devastating witness against my client is not a human being. It's a machine, an information system. The computer log of the Enterprise. Can ask this court adjourn and reconvene aboard that vessel.
.
COGLEY: And I repeat, I speak of rights. A machine has none. A man must. My client has the right to face his accuser, and if you do not grant him that right, you have brought us down to the level of the machine. Indeed, you have elevated that machine above us. I ask that my motion be granted, and more than that, gentlemen. In the name of humanity, fading in the shadow of the machine, I demand it. I demand it!

Computers are at the service of man. Man is not at the service of the computer. A computer is a tool that should never be viewed as equal or superior to humans. Computers will always be inferior to humans because computers lack heart or emotion or warmth - they only offer cold logic, binary, yes or no.

We will see this repeated through TOS. All computers will be defeated because they lack the ability to say "I don't know" or fail to understand emotions, warmth, fuzzy logic, intuition, instinct.

So far we've seen that with the androids from "What are Little Girls Made of?" These androids did not understand warmth or emotion. Andrea was the prime example. Corby was rejected because he was a cold machine impersonating a human (never mind the fact that it appeared his consciousness was 100% transferred).

We also see this with the insults Spock is subjected to. And the extreme willful insubordination in "The Galileo Seven."

 

[Mytran]

COURT MARTIAL: An interesting concept, somewhat let down by its final execution. The earlier drafts give Cogley much more of an active role (but would have been horribly expensive to film). As it stands he doesn’t really do very much except give a couple of speeches which ultimately don’t go anywhere.

Cogley seems shocked by the video evidence, but as defense attorney he surely saw it before trial, right?

IOW, his reputation far exceeds his ability.

Other thoughts:
The emblem for the Star Service appears to be that boomerang shaped thing hanging on the wall behind the witness stand. It also appears on the sides of the Enterprise’s secondary hull, after all.
Starship crews get a gold delta on their uniforms (Kirk’s colleagues all wear one). Starbase personnel wear a starburst insignia.

McCoy’s reaction to being called an “expert in space psychology” is classic: “I know something about it”

The court room has a HINGED DOOR that McCoy and Spock rush in through. I spotted this in the middle of a conversation with my 6 year old about how all the doors in the future are automatic sliding doors. Oops!!!

Back into the Engine Room! At least there’s a good reason it’s deserted this time.

It’s fun how the officers of the court elect to stay on board the doomed ship in order to hear out Finney’s testimony. They were once officers of the line too, y’know!

Cogley sitting in the courtroom writing on a piece of paper with a pencil.

Not only him, but Kirk signs off Finney’s death on SPACE PAPER. Maybe Commodore Stone is a closet anti-techist as well? Uh, I mean traditionalist

Kirk’s control panel has changed considerably since last week. Perhaps it automatically reconfigures itself depending on the mission requirements?

"Not a man in a million could do what we did, command a starship." Makes Kirk sound elite indeed.

Mudd said as much way back in episode 2. Also this week, the excellence of the Star Service – and to what lengths the senior administration will go to maintain that reputation “sweep it under the rug and {Kirk} along with it!”
Also, Kirk’s graduating class is “well represented” in the bar on Starbase 11 which doesn’t strike Kirk as an astonishing coincidence. Just how small is this UESPA star service?

The episode really epitomizes the entire TOS attitude toward computers, AI, etc...

Also in Conscience Of The King with Karidian's general attitude to modern life which he explains to Kirk: "Here you stand, the perfect symbol of our technical society. Mechanised, electronicised, and not very human. You've done away with humanity, the striving of man to achieve greatness through his own resources."

I'm sometimes puzzled by how sensors work. Couldn't they just do a sensor sweep of the ship to find Finney without the heart gizmo?

Perhaps there are certain areas of the ship where life signs are masked by the machinery?
Also, McCoy holds his “white sound device” over Spock’s chest to mask out his heartbeat. Was the doctor just joking in Mudd’s Women when he claimed that the vulcan’s heart was located elsewhere?

Why would altering the records affect the chess-playing abilities of the computer? Would it in an 1960's-era computer?

McCoy mentions the "program bank" which Spock is apparently testing with his chess games. Maybe the video sensor data is stored on the same server as the chess program and Finney had to wipe them all out in a single strike? IOW, that is Finney's inferior chess program (probably an off the shelf version) that Spock is bandying about with
In other Trek tech: Spock runs "a complete megalyte survey on the computer."
https://beaufortanimalsupplies.com.au/shop/horse-products/health-3/mega-lyte-2kg/


I appreciate the much more subtle humour to end this episode than the laugh-a-thon from last week. And no-one dies!

 

[Pauln6]

Yeah this one never really did it for me. As a lawyer I found the legal arguments to be fanciful and weak. Areel should not have been allowed to prosecute Kirk by reason of her personal friendship with him. Was she the only prosecutor in the Quadrant? Cogley seemed to winging it, although a love of books is not a bizarre fetish, possibly discounting an electronic search as a starting point looks rather odd.

I thought it was interesting that Finney was able to hack the ship's computer but I'm less clear on his escape plan.

 

[Phaser Two]

Yeah this one never really did it for me. As a lawyer I found the legal arguments to be fanciful and weak. Areel should not have been allowed to prosecute Kirk by reason of her personal friendship with him. Was she the only prosecutor in the Quadrant? Cogley seemed to winging it, although a love of books is not a bizarre fetish, possibly discounting an electronic search as a starting point looks rather odd.

I thought it was interesting that Finney was able to hack the ship's computer but I'm less clear on his escape plan.

Interestingly, although I enjoyed CM as a kid, it's fallen in my estimation and I think it's because now I "know something of the law," as Hengist might say.

As for Finney's plan, it was to go down with the ship, right? He gave up when he realized Jamie was aboard.

 

[Shawnster]

Yes, that is a good question. What was Finney's plan? Let's think about it.

Finney escaped the ion pod and hid before the pod was jettisoned. He was able to slip away unnoticed. Was this planned before he got in the pod? Was it a spur of the moment decision? When did he alter the computer - before getting in the pod or after? Where did Finney hide for those days or weeks after the incident?

What makes the most sense is Finney planned this before getting in the pod. He had to alter the computer and know where to hide. This Enterprise is big, but it's not all that big that it has areas where someone can hide unnoticed for a long time, does it? What about food? What about restroom? Finney could hide in an unused quarters, but for how long? And there are no food slot thingies in those quarters. At least, none depicted yet. So far we've only seen food slots in public common areas. Finney was hiding in Engineering, but was he there the whole time? Unnoticed?

What was the plan, exactly? Fake his own death. Alter the computer logs to make Kirk look guilty. Cause Kirk trouble to the point of ending his career. Then what? It's not like he could ever show his face again anywhere. If he were ever to be discovered as being alive, that would be a triumph of Kirk. Finney had to abandon ever seeing his daughter or anyone else who knew him ever again.

How was he going to get off the ship? He can't hide forever in Engineering or anywhere else on the ship.

Not the best of plans. Who can figure out crazy? This dude needs a visit to Dr. Adams' chair on Tantalus.

Jamie got to Starbase 11 fast. So did all the officers for the tribunal. Were they all living or hanging out on Starbase 11? There was that nice list of ships under repair. Maybe those captains were from those ships.

Speaking of that list. NCC 1864. The Reliant is docked at the starbase!

Nice multi-cultural representation for the 60s. Commodore Stone is black. Captain Krasnovsky sounds like a Russian name. Captain Chandra appeared ethnically descended from Indians or other southern Asia demographics. Too bad he had a non-speaking role but it was the 60s. Let's not get our hopes up too much. These men who appeared to be minorities to 1960s viewers were not cab drivers or cleaning staff. They were current or former starship captains. A rare breed. Few men could do what they did every day.

Only 3 men could tamper with the computer in such a way - Kirk, Spock and Finney. Kirk is really that smart at reprogramming computers? Well, he did reprogram the Kobyashi Maru simulation so there is that.

I wonder if Finney's tampering was like introducing a virus or malware. Such things can affect other computer programs, too, like a chess program.

Either gossip spreads fast on the Starbase or more time passes between the opening teaser and the next scene. Spock delivers the computer results to Stone. Stone reads that Kirk jettisoned the pod before going to red alert. Next thing we know, everyone in the bar is giving Kirk the stink eye for killing Finney. How did these guys find out? Sure, Finney is dead (supposedly) but they shouldn't know Kirk is under investigation. Did Stone tell someone? Gossip? Revealing confidential information? Was there a big deal about arresting Kirk? Kirk didn't seem like he was under arrest. So how did these guys at the bar find out Kirk was suspected/implicated in jettisoning the pod too early? Shouldn't that be classified?

Nice little apartment Kirk has on Starbase 11. Why does Kirk never lock the door? Eve is able to enter Kirk's quarters on the Enterprise in Mudd's Women. Cogley is able to move into Kirk's quarters without him knowing. Dude, lock the door!

Why is Kirk allowed to communicate with the Enterprise? It's clear he's not even on house arrest, but come on! McCoy and Spock act like crime scene investigators or detectives working for the defense. Kirk is under criminal investigation for negligence. He shouldn't be allowed to communicate with people investigating the crime.

All these myriad of stations with multiple buttons and not one of them is labeled. Kirk has an armrest with 5 buttons and 3 of them are labeled?

Mighty fine bridge recording they have here. Very high quality. Zoom feature on the armrest and everything.

USS Republic NCC 1371 Kirk served on her with Finney.

I have a friend that looks like Cogley. LOL

No Sulu this week.

What's up with these close up shots during the court scene? Close up on Stone, then Shaw, then Kirk, back to Stone. Tight on their head and face. Looked out of place. Odd. Maybe an artistic camera style no longer used. And my wife and I watch all kinds of police procedurals and court dramas.

Was there really a need to clear out everyone? Seems like every time we do that, the orbit decays.

Yes, send the man on trial after Finney. Makes perfect sense.

Wouldn't Kirk have to stay to testify against Finney at his trial? And there is absolutely no way Finney could get off. I don't see any lawyer being that good.

The emblem for the Star Service appears to be that boomerang shaped thing hanging on the wall behind the witness stand. It also appears on the sides of the Enterprise’s secondary hull, after all.
Starship crews get a gold delta on their uniforms (Kirk’s colleagues all wear one). Starbase personnel wear a starburst insignia.

Good catch. Wonder if we'll see other styles of uniform logos or patches.

The court room has a HINGED DOOR that McCoy and Spock rush in through. I spotted this in the middle of a conversation with my 6 year old about how all the doors in the future are automatic sliding doors. Oops!!!

So did Wesley's door to his quarters in TNG's "The First Duty." But that door made the swoosh sound anyway.

Also, Kirk’s graduating class is “well represented” in the bar on Starbase 11 which doesn’t strike Kirk as an astonishing coincidence. Just how small is this UESPA star service?

A graduating class (or any group) need not be small to be well represented. If you were in a room (or court) where 3 out of 5 people were from your high school graduating class, it could be said your class was well represented.

 

[mb22]

The court room has a HINGED DOOR that McCoy and Spock rush in through. I spotted this in the middle of a conversation with my 6 year old about how all the doors in the future are automatic sliding doors. Oops!!!

Plus the one in "The Menagerie Pt. 1" (the next episode filmed) in Pike's room (also on Starbase 11)

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Kirk has no luck with "Finn"s, as viewers shall soon see. Finnegan, Finney...

Cogley was calling a computer a " homogenized, pasteurized, synthesizer". I guess he likes the smell and feel of paper, the weight of a document or book, the way many do.

 

[Mytran]

The court room has a HINGED DOOR that McCoy and Spock rush in through. I spotted this in the middle of a conversation with my 6 year old about how all the doors in the future are automatic sliding doors. Oops!!!

Plus the one in "The Menagerie Pt. 1" (the next episode filmed) in Pike's room (also on Starbase 11)

Which is hilarious in itself at poor crippled Pike is one of the few people who couldn't use a hinged door! Poor guy. Or was a part of a dastardly plan to stop him wandering off (very slowly)

While I'm on the subject of The Menagerie next week, how do people feel about doing both parts in one session? It's only been 3 months since we saw The Cage after all...

 

[Shawnster]

I'd rather do both parts at once

 

[Poltargyst]

If we do both parts next week, what do we do the following week? Take a week off or continue with the next episode?

 

[Poltargyst]

Either gossip spreads fast on the Starbase or more time passes between the opening teaser and the next scene. Spock delivers the computer results to Stone. Stone reads that Kirk jettisoned the pod before going to red alert. Next thing we know, everyone in the bar is giving Kirk the stink eye for killing Finney. How did these guys find out? Sure, Finney is dead (supposedly) but they shouldn't know Kirk is under investigation. Did Stone tell someone? Gossip? Revealing confidential information? Was there a big deal about arresting Kirk? Kirk didn't seem like he was under arrest. So how did these guys at the bar find out Kirk was suspected/implicated in jettisoning the pod too early? Shouldn't that be classified?

I was thinking too that in real life it could take some weeks to prepare for this trial. Was the Enterprise there that long?

Kind of an interesting question. If a ship's captain is on trial, does the ship hang around at port until the trial is done or does the ship take off under another captain until the trial is done?

 

[Shawnster]

If we do both parts next week, what do we do the following week? Take a week off or continue with the next episode?

I'm cool with continuing. Perhaps the break (or breaks) will be better needed around the holidays.

How did the members do it in the 50th anniversary re-watch discussion?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If a ship's captain is on trial, does the ship hang around at port until the trial is done or does the ship take off under another captain until the trial is done?

Does the episode portray the actual trial, or the preliminary hearing?

 

[Mytran]

I'm cool with continuing. Perhaps the break (or breaks) will be better needed around the holidays.

How did the members do it in the 50th anniversary re-watch discussion?

Christmas Eve this year will be on a Monday - I'm sure many of us will be busy then and could use the week off that we're banking now!

Does the episode portray the actual trial, or the preliminary hearing?

The initial inquiry is held in Stone's office, where Kirk dramatically demands a court-martial.
The first courtroom scene starts with Stone declaring "this court is now in session" so I assume that it is the actual court-martial trial. Kirk's later log entry seems to support this:
"Captain's Log, Stardate 2949.9. The evidence presented by the visual playback to my general court-martial was damning. I suspect even my attorney has begun to doubt me."

Incidentally, while re-reading the transcript for this episode I just realised that this is the first mention of "Starfleet" - 4 of them!
3 mentions relate to SF as the awarding body of various medals, the 4th is from Stone himself during the initial inquiry:

STONE: Captain, either you accept a permanent ground assignment, or the whole disciplinary weight of Starfleet command is going to light right on your neck.

In the court-martial itself though, he is back to using different terminology

STONE: I have appointed as members of this court Space Command Representative Lindstrom, Starship Captains Krasnovsky and Chandra.

Are they both the same organisation? Is one higher than the other? I need answers!!!

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Space Command might refer to space-based (ships, stations, etc), as opposed to ground-based (planet, monn, etc) Starfleet divisions.

 

[Shawnster]

"Space Command Representative" That is his title. His whole title.

Organization: Starfleet. or Starfleet Command (unless Starfleet Command specifically refers to the command/administrative portion)

Space Command Representative is a position within Starfleet Command.

Space Command might refer to space-based (ships, stations, etc), as opposed to ground-based (planet, monn, etc) Starfleet divisions.

That fits.

 

[Shawnster]

Christmas Eve this year will be on a Monday - I'm sure many of us will be busy then and could use the week off that we're banking now!

Maybe we can take off between Thanksgiving and New Year's? People busy with both holidays. Plus my step son is getting married first of Dec.

 

[Mytran]

What is this strange "Thanksgiving" of which you speak? I and my British brethren know it not. Something to do with turkey shaped meat loaf, perchance?

But yes, it's a busy time of year. Perhaps once a fortnight though, so momentum in the project isn't completely lost?