If Star Trek Nemesis had been a box office hit...
- Thread starter Infern0
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Brent Spiner said the plan for the next movie was a "Justice League of Trek" using time travel to unite all the crews (including beaming Data off the Schimitar a second before destruction) against a similar team of villains.
Might have been awesome. Probably not, though.
Might have been awesome. Probably not, though.
Also I remember hearing that the reason that Ent didn't go in for the obvious plot of the war with the Romulans was that this was being saved for a movie where the main guy would be called Tiberius and the person Jim Kirk is named after. Had Nemesis done well I wouldn't be surprised if that had gone through.
That most certainly would've been horrific
A reasonable, reined-in version of that would have been perfect. That's just where Trek movies had to go next, to stay vital. The "world" of them needed to be expanded outward, so they could play with all available characters, and not limit it to one ship. I'd keep it 24th century, but maybe a bit of time travel could work.
Boy, you said it. And, I guess it just goes to show how bereft of ideas the Berman team was for the movie series. It was definitely time to pass the torch and then, someHOW ... we get -ENTERPRISE- on television. Though, I have to say, Season 3 was actually quite good.
Yes and no. The tentative title for what was going to be the 11th film was Star Trek: The Beginning and was being written by Erik Jendresen. The first draft was written in 2006, a little over a year after Enterprise ended. There may have been overlap but I believe the movie idea came out after Enterprise was cancelled (partly because if Enterprise continued they were going to show the start of the war on the show).
Berman was attached as producer though Jendresen said Berman had very little to do with it otherwise, and certainly nothing to do with the draft he wrote. They would have featured a few characters from Enterprise like Shran but not any of the NX-01 crew (odd since they were the flagship)---however Jendresen himself noted it was a first draft and obviously lots of changes occur between first draft and filming so we don't know what a final product would have looked like.
He had hoped some of his ideas may have made it into novel form. However while the Romulan War finally made it to the novels none of Jendresen's ideas that I can see made the cut.
There is an entire article about it on Memory Alpha including the draft outline of the story. To be honest I thought it sounded interesting. Some who read the script noted a WWII feel about the story, which would have been different for a Star Trek film. Paramount was concerned though that it did not feature any established characters outside some also starring members from Enterprise (like Shran and Admiral Gardner). But I think that could be overcome with a good story. Now that's not to say I didn't like Martin's Romulan War books. He did a good job with the War and tying it all together (even explaining why the ships in the 23rd century like the original series seemed less advanced).
Eventually it was shelved, a new leadership took over and they got in touch with Bob Orci and the rest is history. Too bad CBS never considered Jendresen's idea as a TV movie or miniseries---or something. The Romulan War is one of those pivotal events in Star Trek history that had such an impact on future history that we've never seen on screen.
How do you figure the NX-01 was the flagship of anything?
Any movie (if possible) would have featured Stewart as the lead.
Some reason to include Frakes in some way would have been written into the script, with Riker on the the Titan or with Riker back on the Enterprise.
The only real wild card would have been Spinner and his desire to no long be Data (or B-4?), owing to his age. But a barrel full of money would have fixed that.
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Because it was one of the most advanced ships of the fleet at the time (they were the first warp 5 ship), and had the most experienced crew. I think that was pretty well established in Enterprise. You'd think you'd want them on the front lines.
Granted Starfleet was in their infancy at the time but the Enterprise was at the forefront of Starfleet at the time.
FWIW, the Enterprise is on shore leave at Risa in the Star Trek: The Beginning script, too far out to be any help. The movie reimagined the Earth/Romulan war as a week-long battle in Earth orbit in 2159 between unmanned Romulan drone ships (with cloaking devices) and UESN fighters. More info HERE.
Brent Spiner's age was supposedly the cited reason for killing off data, and unlike almost everyone else (it seems) I have never questioned the face value of that decision. Maybe they could have gotten him back with more money but I think having a wrinkly android would be a terrible idea.
Agreed about trying to get Patrick Stewart back. I don't think the studio would've greenlit anything without him.
But at any rate, a greatest-hits character mashup of a movie would have been a terrible idea for Berman Trek. Star Trek wasn't Marvel, and TNG was Team Berman's only real mainstream hit. DS9 was perhaps quirky enough to not care that it was more fan-oriented than mainstream. VOY and ENT both clearly wanted to succeed TNG as mainstream, however neither of them were.
This is the most information I've ever come across regarding the Beginning project. I never realized it had crossover potential with ENT, or that Berman wasn't the one actively pushing for it to get greenlit.
Agreed about trying to get Patrick Stewart back. I don't think the studio would've greenlit anything without him.
But at any rate, a greatest-hits character mashup of a movie would have been a terrible idea for Berman Trek. Star Trek wasn't Marvel, and TNG was Team Berman's only real mainstream hit. DS9 was perhaps quirky enough to not care that it was more fan-oriented than mainstream. VOY and ENT both clearly wanted to succeed TNG as mainstream, however neither of them were.
This is the most information I've ever come across regarding the Beginning project. I never realized it had crossover potential with ENT, or that Berman wasn't the one actively pushing for it to get greenlit.
Think I read somewhere that Scott Bacula said that his show was suppose to be the next movie series.. So I'm guessing that they would have led up to the war, maybe even done some, and maybe finished the war arc in a movie trilogy.. which would have been cool.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY wish that the "Animated" show there talking about would be a show that covers all timelines, an anthology.. Have short arc seasons, say 5 episodes dealing with Enterprise C, month would pass, 4 episodes with Nx 01 have a war arc. Something like what there doing with Voltron on the netflix, release a few, wait a few months, release another few, and you can have original actors doing the voices, and not have to worry about age. Would REALLY Love for them to animate the Destiny book series.. that is in my opinion the best ending that the borg saga could have.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY wish that the "Animated" show there talking about would be a show that covers all timelines, an anthology.. Have short arc seasons, say 5 episodes dealing with Enterprise C, month would pass, 4 episodes with Nx 01 have a war arc. Something like what there doing with Voltron on the netflix, release a few, wait a few months, release another few, and you can have original actors doing the voices, and not have to worry about age. Would REALLY Love for them to animate the Destiny book series.. that is in my opinion the best ending that the borg saga could have.
That would have been the most expensive Star Trek movie ever made. Just the salaries of the actors alone would have been astronomical.
Okay and how do you get from that to it being the "flagship."
I figure it wouldn't be any other ship. I'm not sure if they ever literally said it was the "flagship" verbatim on the show, but I would say it's a logical assumption. It was the go-to ship during the Xindi crisis and other significant missions with far reaching effects.
Basically when there was a crisis or an Earth-shattering situation that needed Starfleet's attention they called Captain Archer and the Enterprise. I would say that qualifies as a flagship for Starfleet at that point of time, when they had few ships to call upon as it was.
You'd think they'd be on the frontlines of the Earth Romulan War (which it was in the novels until the Romulans developed a program to hack into their computer systems and take over the ship). That was the flaw I saw in the movie script--though admittedly that could have changed if it was developed further.
I'm curious, why do you think it wasn't the flagship of Starfleet? I can't think of any other ship that would fill that role.
There is a lot of good in this movie, mostly around Patrick Stewart. It is far from the worst Trek film out there, but the writing failed it. Given how big of a star Tom Hardy is now, Shinzon was clearly not his fault, but that of poor writing.
I always joke that I'm one of the 10 people the liked Nemesis. I rated about a middle of the road Trek film overall, my 2nd favorite of TNG films. I liked the basic plot, the characters (I actually thought the 'additional' cast like Geordi and Troi had more to do in this film then the prior 3), the special effects and the music (of course). I also really liked the Scimitar--when Picard said she was a predator he hit it on the head. The outside of the ship looked mean (the inside was iffy--it probably could have been better).
But the writing had issues even though I liked the basis of it. Surprising in a way because John Logan is no slouch. I'm a big 007 fan and I thought Skyfall and Spectre were great Bond films that he helped write. I didn't like the B-4 subplot and the scenes on Kolarus seemed like a waste of time. I liked the basic plot and the idea they were trying to get out there about the 'echo' and all that--would Picard do exactly what Schinzon in his situation being he was a clone. That's the kind of deep thinking you come to expect from Star Trek. But they didn't execute it all that well. Hardy as Schinzon I didn't mind but I understand some of the criticisms. Part of that I think is he was playing a clone of Picard, so I think he was compared to Stewart's acting, perhaps a tall order for a then young actor. But setting that aside he was ok in the role.
It's easy to dump on because it was the only Star Trek film not to premiere at number 1 on its opening weekend. But I really think Paramount did it a huge disservice releasing it when they did along with a number of blockbuster films. Nemesis was not a blockbuster film, but I do feel a few months earlier or later and it probably would have done a little better and at least pulled number 1 the first weekend.
But I recognize I'm in the minority. A lot of Trekkies feel it is an abomination and some don't even speak of it. I've said before I was always surprised at the amount of vitriol it gets though. I noted on another thread I wonder how much of that is a group think idea (to be clear I'm not saying criticisms of it aren't valid--it just seems like one of those things that it's popular to dump on).
Even Insurrection doesn't seem to get that kind of hatred that Nemesis does, and I feel Insurrection is one of the weaker Star Trek films, number 12 or 13 IMHO (TFF is in last place). I don't hate any Star Trek film and Insurrection was ok, but I thought Nemesis was superior to Insurrection.
Leonard Nimoy, James Cameron, and others have said basically the same thing:
It's science fiction, so no one has to stay dead.
Brent Spiner does not have to be the only Data.
It all comes down to the skill of the performer in the role.
I liked Nemesis, to an extent.
I didn't think Insurrection was terrible....just that it seemed more like a blander weekly episode than something suited for the big screen.
There was some good in the TNG movies, but the directions they went in from Generations on seemed rather weak. Just not very strong stories. The manner of killing off Kirk was poorly done. I thought First Contact spent too much time detaching the dish.
A better story after Nemesis could have re-invigorated things.
It's science fiction, so no one has to stay dead.
Brent Spiner does not have to be the only Data.
It all comes down to the skill of the performer in the role.
I liked Nemesis, to an extent.
I didn't think Insurrection was terrible....just that it seemed more like a blander weekly episode than something suited for the big screen.
There was some good in the TNG movies, but the directions they went in from Generations on seemed rather weak. Just not very strong stories. The manner of killing off Kirk was poorly done. I thought First Contact spent too much time detaching the dish.
A better story after Nemesis could have re-invigorated things.
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