Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[Pauln6]

When did the difficulties surrounding Grace Lee Whitney begin in the production of these episodes? We haven't seen all the episodes with Rand in them yet (thinking about Miri), yet we're already commenting that episodes were changed to recast a different character and actress.

It's hard to tell what conversations were going on behind closed doors but it's clear from season one that as far as the writers were concerned, Rand would have appeared in at least two thirds of the episodes, probably taking on the role of the records officer in Court Martial, the stenographer in the Menagerie, plus the yeomen and Uhura's part in City on the Edge of Forever.

The official line is that there was some concern about the level of hanky panky that might be going on among the crew but that element still remains with Helen and Barrows so that looks like bull. They also said that the script brought the Kirk / Rand frisson too much out in the open but we've already had that in the Enemy Within and soon to be repeated in Miri. I don't see anything worse in Dagger and in fact the taint that it would leave might cure them both. It would certainly have added an interesting layer leading into City.

Some of Rand's scenes were trimmed to make her less subservient or less suggestive according to Memory Alpha. At least once Roddenberry interfered to keep her more subservient so maybe he had a thing for that dynamic (Robert Wise described her as Kirk's geisha but did little to help the character rise above that in TMP - he may have resented Roddenberry's effort to reintroduce that dynamic). Maybe there was irritation that the actress was so expensive compared to the day players when her part kept getting trimmed to be largely decorative.

When I read the graphic novel version of Harlan Ellison's script for City on the Edge of Forever, I assumed that he had tweaked it to make Rand more like a modern 21st century heroine. I was very surprised to read that his original treatment contained most of what's in the graphic novel. Rand would have been a proper action heroine. In the second treatment the yeoman was useless, simply running off to seek help from the men. It's interesting that someone somewhere was intentionally making the female characters more rubbish. Edith still rocked at least.

 

[Mytran]

Another week, another misguided crazed genius. However, while Dr Korby had that slightly intense but overall gentle and academic look, this Dr Adams acts like a Bond villain from the second we meet him!
One of his henchman even gets a high voltage “Oddjob” style death scene

Speaking of deaths, what was the point of the guard on the Bridge? He stood, facing AWAY from the only entrance to the most important room on the ship and…got clobbered as a result! He didn’t even turn around when the door whooshed open from behind!!!

I like how McCoy has his own staff, large enough that Kirk doesn’t even know all of them. That Dr Noel though seems determined to make him feel as uncomfortable as she can – did the Science Lab Christmas Party not end the way she was hoping?
On the plus side, it’s another good example of Kirk NOT acting like the misogynistic ladies' man he’s so often seen as in pop culture.

When did the difficulties surrounding Grace Lee Whitney begin in the production of these episodes? We haven't seen all the episodes with Rand in them yet (thinking about Miri), yet we're already commenting that episodes were changed to recast a different character and actress.

I’m guessing we’re seeing the impact of those behind the scenes difficulties now. There wasn’t really much she could have added to What Are Little Girls Made Of but it is painfully obvious that Kirk’s “assistant” should have been Rand. Granted she wouldn’t have had the same background experience in “psychiatric and penology” but as others have already pointed out, Noel’s contribution to the plot was largely in sneaking around and kicking goons. Rand would have been awesome!
Interestingly, the actress plays Dr Noel with some of the same haughtiness that Grace Lee Whitney would often imbue Rand with. However, she comes across as way too full of herself IMO. GLW will be sorely missed after next week.

Great twist on the Kirk-Spock-McCoy scene when they debate what to do with Van Gelder – this time it’s Kirk who’s arguing with the good doctor and SPOCK must break the two of them up! In fact, McCoy and Spock have an excellent working relationship in the episode throughout.

It seems odd that transporters are not set to ping if the transported objects to not match expectations but we've seen this in the Man Trap too. Later on they were able to control what materialised more effectively but you would have thought that the possibility of beaming up explosives or alien diseases would lead to much better auto screening.

Just another machine that the crew set to “activate” without worrying too much about what goes on, I guess. I don’t recall them having much control over the process at any time in TOS, but I stand to be corrected as we move on

Love those space cargo props! And a whole giant crate of space paperwork as well! Unless “research material” could be experimental machinery and a pile of data discs? Just how much inventing does Dr Adams do down there?

This USS Enterprise is a BIG ship. The crazed Van Gelder runs past someone on Deck 14 in an engineering uniform who immediately spots him as being out of place. Is Deck 14 in the saucer? Or are Scotty and his filthy minions simply confined to certain areas of the ship only?

I'll say again, Morgan Woodward's a good actor.

Cannot agree enough: His performance as Van Gelder is great; tortured, scared, angry, resistant, all in one. The accelerating heartbeat sound emphasises his mood effectively too in that first Sickbay interrogation
Speaking of which, there are loads of low angle shots in Sickbay this week; it's great for the scenes, but the ceiling keeps showing up! It’s rather plain, especially visible in the mind meld scenes. Where are all the lights?

Psychiatric research hospitals seem to have access to military grade weaponry; all of Dr Adams’ goons carry Starfleet Phaser 2s!

That scene at the end...Kirk has such a lonely look on his face like he knows just what Adams went through. He pauses and causes looks of concern on McCoy's and Spock's faces. Then Kirk smiles, Spock gets that reassured look, and all is right with the world.

I’m not sure about all being right - Kirk still seems a little confused, as he asks Mr Spock to take them out of orbit at Warp One. This would be normally be a job for the navigator or helmsman (maybe neither was a member of SAG)

Those ventilation ducts are just ridiculous, even for TV.

 

[Poltargyst]

What's more frustrating is that Helen would have made a fun character to see again. And the Children Shall Lead, Whom Gods Destroy, Shore Leave, or Turnabout Intruder could all have benefitted from a bit of Helen.

Every episode could.

 

[Poltargyst]

I guess he hopes that since he and she are beaming down together without a security team accompanying them, and therefore she's the only aide he has on this mission, he wants her to carry her weight.

Okay, but if Kirk beams down to a planet with Sulu, does he refer to Sulu as his assistant?

Now that I think of it, he never says, but I wonder how Kirk does rate Noel's performance. Best "assistant" ever?

And the way Kirk reacts, did McCoy know about the thing between them at the Christmas party and intentionally not tell Kirk who it was as a gag? McCoy does say her name. Serves you right, Kirk, for not getting the lady's name when you fool around with her.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I have nothing against DeForest Kelley, but if Helen Noel had been the ship's doctor from "Corbomite" on, the show might have been even better. The big three would have had a more complicated interpersonal dynamic. Sometimes they'd even seem like a romantic triangle. And if they did it right, TOS would have a better batting average for how it portrayed Earth women.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I have nothing against DeForest Kelley, but if Helen Noel had been the ship's doctor from "Corbomite" on, the show might have been even better. The big three would have had a more complicated interpersonal dynamic. Sometimes they'd even seem like a romantic triangle. And if they did it right, TOS would have a better batting average for how it portrayed Earth women.

It was the Sixties, what was the chance of that happening?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It was the Sixties, what was the chance of that happening?

Don't believe Roddenberry's bullcrap about NBC not allowing him to give a woman authority. It's what he told Majel to spare her feelings when NBC rejected her in "The Cage." Then he had to keep women down in Starfleet for three years to keep Majel from seeing through his bull. And then the fib took on a life of its own in the 1970s, when it became useful for GR to portray himself as having been a fighter for women, and to portray unnamed NBC executives as reactionary goats. But the opposite was true.

And there were strong women in leadership roles on TV in the 60s, notable Barbara Stanwyck on The Big Valley. Not to mention the fact that, by that time, few shows were actively keeping women as far down, as subservient, as TOS did. And I say that as a huge, life-long fan. Great show, imbalanced approach to gender relations. Note that I say this only with benefit of hindsight. I wasn't bothered by it for the first 20 or 30 years.

 

[Maurice]

Not every male-female relationship even on TV has to have a romantic angle. A female Doc would have been fine, but sexual tension between her and the Captain would have just been cliché.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Not every male-female relationship even on TV has to have a romantic angle. A female Doc would have been fine, but sexual tension between her and the Captain would have just been cliché.

Even without an overt attraction, having a hot woman in the Big Three would have opened up new feelings. The man-woman-man triangle would have been more interesting in an episode like "The Empath," when the three of them are in danger, and the doctor gets hurt. Also, seeing Kirk and Noel at odds over Charlie Evans or Mr. Bailey would be a whole different chemistry, with more textures of humanity than Kirk and McCoy had between them.

 

[Pauln6]

We still have Rand at this point but Uhura's presence on the bridge doesn't make up for her eventual loss overall. I do think Roddenberry's sex-obsessed influence had the effect of keeping the women in Trek down. Season one of TNG demonstrated sexist undertones, far more than many seventies and early eighties sci fi shows that came before it.

I do think Helen could have held her own as a regular but I'm not sure McCoy's loss would have been a good thing. As a guest star, they would have had to stick to episodes where she could have contributed significantly.

There are a few other female characters coming up who would have made good recurring characters too but after season one, Chekov is the only recurring character that is introduced apart from background extras (and Mudd). There were attempts to have recurring Klingons that fell through due to availability.

There was allegedly talk of bringing back Rand as a guest star and Grace did keep visiting the set for a while after being fired but I suspect it was bull to soften the blow, since she could have been used in City as Ellison intended, or in Tribbles and they decided not to.

 

[Maurice]

Technically Grace wasn't fired. Her contract was up and they didn't pick it up again.

"Having a hot woman in the Big Three would have opened up new feelings". Yeah the aforementioned cliché sexual attraction: lamely going where everyone has gone before.

 

[Pauln6]

Technically Grace wasn't fired. Her contract was up and they didn't pick it up again.

"Having a hot woman in the Big Three would have opened up new feelings". Yeah the aforementioned cliché sexual attraction: lamely going where everyone has gone before.

Yeah unrequited love is a classic and very overused trope. I do recall though that when Lois and Clark got together, ratings went down. Could be coincidence or it might be that lots of fans like the ambiguity .

Generally, I'm fine with it but not when that's the ONLY reason for the character.

 

[alchemist]

The official line is that there was some concern about the level of hanky panky that might be going on among the crew but that element still remains with Helen and Barrows so that looks like bull. They also said that the script brought the Kirk / Rand frisson too much out in the open but we've already had that in the Enemy Within and soon to be repeated in Miri. I don't see anything worse in Dagger and in fact the taint that it would leave might cure them both. It would certainly have added an interesting layer leading into City.

Some of Rand's scenes were trimmed to make her less subservient or less suggestive according to Memory Alpha. At least once Roddenberry interfered to keep her more subservient so maybe he had a thing for that dynamic (Robert Wise described her as Kirk's geisha but did little to help the character rise above that in TMP - he may have resented Roddenberry's effort to reintroduce that dynamic). Maybe there was irritation that the actress was so expensive compared to the day players when her part kept getting trimmed to be largely decorative.

In the July 30, 1966 final draft version, Rand is quite forward with Kirk while they're experimenting with the neuro-potentiator. She suggests not one, but two, romantic "episodes" with him, the latter one in direct disobedience of his orders. IMHO, she comes across as desperate to gain his affection, and the scenes are very hard to believe... and painful to now read.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

it is painfully obvious that Kirk’s “assistant” should have been Rand. Granted she wouldn’t have had the same background experience in “psychiatric and penology” but as others have already pointed out, Noel’s contribution to the plot was largely in sneaking around and kicking goons.

I suppose you could have had three people on the landing party - Kirk, Rand, and a psychiatrist who could have been male or female. Or even Bones himself, if you wanted to save on guest stars.

Okay, but if Kirk beams down to a planet with Sulu, does he refer to Sulu as his assistant?

Brownie is Korby's assistant, Van Gelder is Adams' assistant, McCoy has assistants in the MU, Baris has Darvin for an assistant, Masters has an assistant, Scott calls Watkins his... men are actually called assistants more than women.

Why didn't they bring back Rand's character for TAS? Granted, Majel, or Nichelle would have likely voiced her, but it would have been interesting.

 

[Pauln6]

In the July 30, 1966 final draft version, Rand is quite forward with Kirk while they're experimenting with the neuro-potentiator. She suggests not one, but two, romantic "episodes" with him, the latter one in direct disobedience of his orders. IMHO, she comes across as desperate to gain his affection, and the scenes are very hard to believe... and painful to now read.

That's interesting. I can see how that would have needed downplaying but then there's no real need for either woman to insert a romantic encounter. Adams comes along and does it for them. They could have used anything else in that scene - a fake promotion could have worked just as well and been amusing . Adams looks more cruel that way as well.

So this brings up the issue over Rand's portrayal as a repressed object of lust in four of her eight appearances plus the early draft of this script. Given that Grace was allegedly forced to engage in sexual role play as a yeoman, were we watching someone with influence over the scripts engaging in a weird form of stalking? That's even more creepy.

 

[Shawnster]

Dr. Adams was one sick puppy. He enjoyed torture for torture's sake. How in the world did he get in such a position? How long had he been playing with people like this? Criminals or not, nobody deserves to be tortured for any reason. Does anyone else think that Adams assaulted Van Gelder with the neural neutralizer? I wonder if Van Gelder fought with Adams over the device and lost. Ironic that the story Adams told about Van Gelder's experience was what actually happened to Adams. Also, McCoy's line here is "He's dead, Captain" instead of "He's dead, Jim."

Lethe has some weird eyes. Not that I should talk, because I have weird eyes. Interestingly the name Lethe comes from Greek mythology. Lethe was one of the rivers in Hades. It flowed around the cave of Hypnos. The word literally means "oblivion", "forgetfulness", or "concealment."

That big box of research materials need not be documents. That's most likely, but it could be other items. Coming from a penal colony I don't know what they could be but who knows?

What is Kirk's interest in Adams and the penal colony system? Does he have a friend or family member in custody somewhere? Kirk has read up on Adams or something. He's visited rehab colonies in the past. Part of his tour of duty or was he visiting someone? Maybe a family member in a rehab facility and not specifically a penal colony. Kirk is pleased with Adam's work and how his ideas have been implemented at other facilities.

Vulcan mind meld without the familiar "my mind to your mind, my thoughts to your thoughts" line. Using the plural "we" was interesting, but I don't think it's used like that in future episodes. I'll have to look for it.

Love, love, love Helen Noel and wish she'd have been a recurring or secondary character.

No Sulu and no Rand this episode.

Really liked the pathetic look Kirk gave the transporter tech as soon as he walked into the room. He knew that tech was overlooking a key step in transporting to and from a penal colony.

The neural neutralizer chair and the overhead swirling light show will make a return appearance in "Whom Gods Destroy." In that episode there are two swirling lights attached directly to the chair. The neural neutralizer room may have been dismantled, but it might be that some of the technology was implemented further. Or perhaps the neural neutralizer was a modification/perversion of existing tech and the latter episode shows how the tech was originally used.

11 episodes in and the lack of going "where no man has gone before" is becoming very noticeable.
The Cage - SS Columbia crashed on Talos IV 18 years prior. Granted, Talos IV was unexplored and nobody knew of the accident.
Where No Man - The Valiant had previously been through the same area. The lithium cracking station on Delta Vega was built and operational and a known location.
Corbomite Maneuver - New uncharted territory!
Mudd's Women - Miners were already on Rigel
Enemy Within - New unexplored planet!
Man Trap - Craters were already at M-113
Naked Time - Human outpost was already on Psi 2000
Charlie X - Thasians and Thasis were unknown but the Enterprise never actually traveled there. The cargo vessel/survey ship/science probe Antares is the one that actually visited Thasis
Balance of Terror - Human monitoring stations along the neutral zone
What are Little Girls - Korby's expedition was there first.
Dagger of the Mind - Penal colony full of humans.

So 3, maybe 4 episodes out of the 11 dealt with strange new worlds, new life and new civilizations (or ancient and forgotten civilizations)

EDIT TO ADD

KIRK: I believe regulations call for me to check my weapon.
ADAMS: No, no. That won't be necessary in your case, Captain. Just keep it out of sight, hmm? I know you people feel as naked without a weapon as we do without a medikit. A small toast. Do you mind? It's such a great day for us here on Tantalus when we have visitors, no matter what the excuse.

So, Kirk is one of "those people" who feels naked without a weapon. Is he a solder or something? Military man?

 

[Poltargyst]

Brownie is Korby's assistant, Van Gelder is Adams' assistant, McCoy has assistants in the MU, Baris has Darvin for an assistant, Masters has an assistant, Scott calls Watkins his... men are actually called assistants more than women.

I've thought about this some more, and I think I know better why it bothers me that Kirk refers to Noel as his "assistant."

When Kirk brings Spock, McCoy, or Scotty on a landing party with him, they're not his assistants. They are Experts in their fields. If a science crisis breaks out, Spock is not going to "assist" Kirk in handling it...Spock is going to handle it. If a medical crisis breaks out, McCoy is not going to "assist" Kirk in handling it...McCoy is going to handle it. If an engineering crisis breaks out, Scotty is not going to "assist" Kirk in handling it...Scotty is going to handle it.

With her doctorate in Psychiatry, Helen is also an Expert in her field. If a psychiatric crisis breaks out, she is not going to "assist" Kirk in handling it...Helen is going to handle it.

In each of the examples you gave, the assistant knows less about the field than the one they're assisting. Korby knows more than Brown, Adams knows more than Van Gelder, McCoy knows more than his assistants, etc. But Helen knows more than Kirk about Psychiatry. She's not his "assistant" unless you do also want to call Spock, McCoy, Scotty Kirk's assistants.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

No, but she is his assistant in a sense - Kirk is beaming to the Tantalus colony to investigate Van Gelder's breakout and prepare a report. He can do that from an investigative, captain's POV, but he needs advising from an expert on rehabilitation, which McCoy refers to her as. She is supposed to act as a consultant for Kirk, much as Spock might if Kirk was investigating a crime at a Vulcan colony. McCoy calls her a "technical aide" - someone who adds a perspective he doesn't have. She is not his cop partner.

That makes me wonder why Kirk's head of security doesn't join the landing party, since it's a "how did he escape and beam aboard/how can we prevent that from happening again" matter as well as a "what's wrong with him?/how does this treatment work?" matter. (I have no desire to see the security chief die, being a redshirt, but it seems to me that his would also be a valuable point of view under the assumption that Adams' facility was being run ethically - do a security audit to see what they can improve.)

 

[Pauln6]

No, but she is his assistant in a sense - Kirk is beaming to the Tantalus colony to investigate Van Gelder's breakout and prepare a report. He can do that from an investigative, captain's POV, but he needs advising from an expert on rehabilitation, which McCoy refers to her as. She is supposed to act as a consultant for Kirk, much as Spock might if Kirk was investigating a crime at a Vulcan colony. McCoy calls her a "technical aide" - someone who adds a perspective he doesn't have. She is not his cop partner.

That makes me wonder why Kirk's head of security doesn't join the landing party, since it's a "how did he escape and beam aboard/how can we prevent that from happening again" matter as well as a "what's wrong with him?/how does this treatment work?" matter. (I have no desire to see the security chief die, being a redshirt, but it seems to me that his would also be a valuable point of view under the assumption that Adams' facility was being run ethically - do a security audit to see what they can improve.)

Yeah a security character could have been largely absent while investigating the security and then brainwashed in a later scene. Would need to be careful not steal Helen's moment. Why would you send her if you had a security guard?

 

[Phaser Two]

I love this episode, but the weird scene where the guards show up right after Helen goes into the vent and Kirk is all, "Time for another treatment?" is always a little jarring. Didn't the guards think to look for Helen?

Shatner does a great acting job in this one. I love his "thank you" to the vacant-eyed torture technician.